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To: xzins; allmendream; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; metmom; Does so
Obsolete submarines are recorded by the droves....even the Merrimac & Monitor.

Yes — and Merrimac & Monitor would be "fossils" of the species "submarines."

But this does nothing to detract from the fact that every member of the class "submarines" is a purpose-built machine, constructed by an intelligent, creative agent.

A typhoon blowing through a junk yard cannot construct a Boeing 737 no matter how much time is "available" for this process. Especially because there's nothing to "tell" the process how it could ever know whether it had achieved its purpose (construction of a Boeing 737); i.e., whether the process was successful or not.

No purpose can be invoked by a "random" process. Indeed, the specification of "randomness" is usually made when the idea of "purpose" in nature enters the public debate/discussion. The advocates of randomness purport to show the unshowable: that an ordered system can emerge without prior reference to a functional purpose. They think they can dispense with purpose in nature altogether.

allmendream didn't specifically answer my question as to whether "random mutation" has been morphed into "genetic variation" as the proper language to use nowadays. Yet he clearly deemphasizes the use of the word, random, in descriptions of biology. Though that's the very language that Darwin used.

And moreover, is the language still used by some of the most eminent biologists of recent times. For instance, the Nobel prize-winning biologist Jacques Monod, who insists that everything we see all around us in nature, biological and otherwise, is the product of "sheer, blind chance."

I dunno, xzins. Seems to me if a claim like that were true, it would refer to a process nothing short of the miraculous. For a chain of accidents is to be credited with the order of the natural world. On this principle, order rises, spontaneously you see, from disorder.

But jeepers, when exactly did Darwinists start believing in miracles like this?

545 posted on 02/27/2009 2:34:19 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
So where did the “information” on how to digest nylon come from?

I did answer your question. You asked about genetic variation and random mutation. I told you that genetic variation is produced by mutations in a random manner.

Are you suggesting that God has no control over random processes? That “random” is synonymous for “out of God's control”?

Prov 16:33 The dice are cast into the lap but every result is from the Lord.

As to your ‘miraculous’ ideas of how evolution works, do you feel a “miracle” is needed for random variation and selection to produce novel molecular machines?

Did you not read what I posted to you about “directed evolution”?

Do you suppose that miraculous intervention is needed for this process to derive novel and useful proteins for industrial purposes?

546 posted on 02/27/2009 2:40:12 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: betty boop; allmendream; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; metmom; Does so
I dunno, xzins. Seems to me if a claim like that were true, it would refer to a process nothing short of the miraculous. For a chain of accidents is to be credited with the order of the natural world. On this principle, order rises, spontaneously you see, from disorder.

As forerunners of ships with a low profile, the M&M are likewise forerunners of those with a below the surface profile. They are obsolete because they died.

The unmentionable process is death. Just where does that fit with rational, sentient beings who realize their own mortality? Who anguish over lost love, lost hopes, lost strength?

Evolution cannot account for the human spirit, and as you say, reassembling junk from a junk heap will not construct a single mili-liter of conscious, self-aware spirit.

There is one Wind (pneuma) blowing through existence, though, which can. "The wind blows where it wants to, but you can't tell where it comes from or where it's going. The same with everyone born of God's Pneuma."

547 posted on 02/27/2009 2:53:27 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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