Posted on 04/09/2009 10:01:42 AM PDT by stillafreemind
The pilots of the interceptors could see that the airplane was not headed toward anything critical. Given the damage that could be done by a light plane, the expense of an air-to-air missle, the dangers of a flaming airplane plunging to earth, and so on, I'd say they did the right thing.
Having clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding of military personnel and the chain of command, you have also demonstrated your lack of understanding in threat assessments and tactics.
As I said in #22 I don’t mind whether or not the Air Force shot down the Cessna: that’s a call that experts in the Air Force get to make, not me.
I do suspect the Cessna pilot’s motives, and I am not comfortable that he was “merely depressed”. And I do not know how we can be sure he didn’t distribute some form of agricultural disease, nuclear waste, or the like. How do we know he didn’t?
Based on my USAF career experience, Disaster Preparedness is not a career field frequented by fast-burning officers with promotion potential.
Sounds alot like my experience during an exercise, when the Readiness guys in my Control Center couldn't figure out the proper wind speed and direction for a chemical spill. They were arguing back and forth, so I called the Control Tower on the Fire/Crash channel on my brick, identified myself as a Group commander and asked them to please say actual wind speed and direction.
I turned up the volume so all could hear and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, there's your answer."
I usually spent the entire time in the Wing CP, as I was the only one besides my boss who had the requisite clearance. I'd bring a couple of clean pairs of fatigues and a shaving kit, and catch a few winks during the night.
I was 23-24 at the time, and was used to getting by on minimal sleep for 3-4 days.
My Platoon Sergeant did a great job of running the platoon. AF Tac Evals were closer to camping trips for our unit. We'd set up in predetermined locations, and fight boredom, except for the visits from evaluators, which were rare.
“What harm can a Cessna 172, being trailed by F16’s, do?”
I wonder how many intersections (major transformer farms) of our power grid he flew over while they trailed him. It doesn’t have to be a major city to make a terrorist attack effective. Does NORAD have the grids on its maps?
Of course, if someone were intent on using a Cessna for nefarious purposes, I doubt they would steal one and fly off w/out a flight plan. It would appear all legal and on the up and up, right up until the time they deviate, and then it would be too late.
Maps, shmaps. Do you have any idea what instrumentation is packed into an F-16? It is packed with really fantastic all-weather imaging, GPS mapping, and a huge assortment of things we have not dreamed of.
“It is packed with really fantastic all-weather imaging, GPS mapping, and a huge assortment of things we have not dreamed of.”
I can dream about a lot of things, I don’t know about you, but it is still piloted by a human under the command of humans. Human’s especially those worrying about their next fitness report and with a lawyer looking over their shoulder can make a lot of mistakes. Remember the same humans didn’t think of a 911 scenario until after it happened.
Believe me technology doesn’t solve all problems. GIGO is always operative in every decision process.
The man in the cockpit was perfectly capable of dispensing with that sad little airplane just as soon as unpleasant intentions became obvious. The fact of the matter is, the episode ended about as peacefully as it could have, giving full credibility to judgement of those men in charge and in the cockpit.
If one like you had been in charge, there is a very high probability that the outcome would have been unpleasant. You can Monday-night quarterback all you wish. Those who were "in play" obviously made the right calls.
Could you please tell me where this occured? I’m a retired AF controller and I can remember an incident when I was in the tower similar to this.
Vandenberg AFB, 1990.
You said “Having clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding of military personnel and the chain of command”
First, you don’t clearly understand our new brave world of PC. Second, after 11 years in the Air Force and Marine Corps as both enlisted and civil service, I know exactly how the system works. Furthermore, I know how the chain of command is supposed to work but more importantly, I know how it works...and that is the basis of my statement.
I was never at Vandenberg (always wanted to be stationed there) but your comment reminded me of something similar that happened at Zweibrucken. I guess more than one commander knew that they can contact the tower via radio and find out the winds.
This may very well be the crux of our differing opinions. I've been out of the Army for a very long time. My son, now in the Navy, tells it like you do.
I'm sorry you guys missed the "old ways", but thank you profusely for your service!
“If one like you had been in charge, there is a very high probability that the outcome would have been unpleasant. You can Monday-night quarterback all you wish. Those who were “in play” obviously made the right calls.”
Well at least I try to differentiate a comment and speculation on a possible scenario and a question from MMQing. I’m not always successful but I am always glad to hear from an expert who can set me straight.
I'd never pretend to be an expert, but I do know some of the capabilities of our fighter aircraft. They can resolve single individuals on the ground at 6,000 meters. Certainly critical infrastructure vulnerable to a mere Cessna could be spotted long before the Cessna pilot could discern them. Given the small amount of time it would take an F-16 to completely destroy a Cessna, even with wind draft, I'd truly suspect that matters were well in hand by not shooting the imbecile down.
Final comment.
Remember, assumptions are the mother of all F up’s.
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