Posted on 06/25/2009 4:20:47 AM PDT by Man50D
In the "freedom's just another word for nothing left to use" sense?
I've asked this before and never gotten an answer; how do estate and gift taxes figure into prices?
I don't see any way they could.
No. In the F R E E D O M such as our predecessors enjoyed before the advent of the communist inspired income tax sense!
Please show me the post where any FairTax advocate ever said that they would.
To the lurkers watching the fair tax dialog.
The supporters of fair tax have been called dishonest, posters have implied that we have been conned and are attempting to con others in joining us is supporting fair tax.
I ask you who would be harmed the most by the passage of the fair tax?
Accountants
Lobbyists
Estate planners
I am not accusing those on FR that have been vehemently against the far tax of being in one of these industries. There is nothing wrong with using the services of accountants and estate planners to lessen the tax bite under the unfair tax system that we are currently subjected to under our present system.
If their sniping and picking at small details of the fair tax is motivated by the fact that the fair tax system may endanger their livelihood, I can empathized with their situation. I ask them, should we have protected the buggy industry when cars where putting them out of business? Should we have stopped the development of CDs and DVDs to protect the floppy disk industry?
The supporters of Fair tax on Free republic are everyday citizens. We may use a wrong word, we may get something wrong when trying to convey the changes involved in the fair tax system. We’re human and hopefully we will own up to our mistakes. We may miss responding to a question that someone has posed to us. Excuse us as some of us have a life other than posting on forums. Bring our attention back to the question and if we’re not sure of the answer we will try to find out.
We welcome people pointing out inconsistencies, things that aren’t quite clear. If you have the question, surely some one else will ask us later and we will be prepared next time.
I am by no means an expert and I hope that I haven’t led anyone to believe this. If I didn’t think FairTax was a game changer, I would not be wasting my time sharing the idea with others.
I’ve asked again and again of those on FR that are vehemently anti-FairTax, if not FairTax what do you suggest? If you have another idea other than the status quo, share it with us. I’ve never gotten an answer of any value.
I am a firm believer in FairTax and term limits. I see nothing else that could have the impact of these two items if we win. We have hundreds of billions of dollars against the will of several hundred thousand concerned citizens who wish to return sanity to our government.
We may lose. What are you fighting for?
Google Results 525 for Fairtax lewislynnI have no idea what the liberal twits at Google have to do with anything but enjoy drinking your (Fairtax) KoolAid anyway.
Google Results 47,100 for Freerepublic fairtax
I ask you who would be harmed the most by the passage of the fair tax?To name a few LARGE groups:
Accountants
Lobbyists
Estate planners
Consumers
Service industry
Home builders.
Retirees who've saved/invested after tax money.
Local and state governments saddled with a 30% (not 23%) federal sales tax on their purchases and the 30% (not 23%) sales tax on the salaries wages and benefits of "any government" employee (any guesses where that extra money would need to come from?)
Do you think there's some master switch someone can throw on Dec. 31 so when we all wake up on Jan.1 to a government check in the mail, life for everyone will be nirvana? That state tax collectors will just accept an entirely different sales tax scheme and the extra load along with it? If you want to know where the fired IRS agents will go, they'll just put on their state tax collector hate instead.
What makes you think lobbyists would be harmed? What do you think the new Excise Tax Bureau is for? Or maybe you don't know as much about the Fairtax as you think you do.
What do you suggest we do?
Consumers will continue to pay hidden corporate taxes under the present system. Why not raise corporate taxes from 39% to 95% to erase the deficit in ten years?
People will continue to use service industries after the fair tax system is in place.
There will continue to be a demand for new homes.
Retirees will pay taxes on their after tax savings under the present system. It is embedded in what they buy. Retirees with 401K, ROTH IRA plans will be taxed under the present system when they take the mandated disbursements. Right?
What incentive do we have now to save after tax dollars for retirement? Don’t we just get penalized when they tax us for any interest earned?
Local and State governments will no longer be paying SS, FICA taxes for their employees. Why exempt them from paying the Fartax?
Much of what lobbyists do is manipulate the tax code.
You are right, I am not an expert on Fairtax. I am a citizen seeing the only viable group doing something to change the system. If you have other suggestions, I’m open to them. I’ll discard Fairtax in a heartbeat if I find a group or organization that has more potential to roll back government.
Will the transition be easy? I doubt it. Was getting the right to vote for women and blacks easy? How about the transition to withholding taxes before the employee cashed the check? Was that easy? We managed it somehow in the 1940’s I think. How hard is it to collect sales taxes? Have we never done this before?
You give me ten thousand reasons why it can’t be done. I can find millions of people that can do that. It’s as easy as falling off a log. The person that tells me that it can be done and they can do it are few and far between.
Argue for your limitations and sure enough, you have them. Be sure to wrap them tightly around you for security.
Lets take the new house as an example.
Every material used in the construction of the house has an embedded tax of at least 15.3% due to the FICA or payroll tax. How much this adds to the cost of the house is beyond my capability to calculate it. Number of man hours involved in manufacturing each item/material used x pay rate x 15.3%. Plus the number of man hours to build the house x pay rate x 15.3%. Care to take a stab at the cost?
Now consider tax compliance of each and every vendor that makes the material for the house plus the tax compliance of the builder of the house.
Now consider the income tax if an S-corporation or the corporate tax paid by each vendor plus the income tax or corporate tax of the builder of the house.
You fail to account for these costs going away and assume that a new house will cost 23% or 30% more than a house built under our present day tax code.
Point out any flaws in my attempt to give you an answer.
Now we come back to the question, when the hidden taxes are gone and the FairTax is imposed, how do the new prices compare to the old?
Do you believe the FairTax will suddenly collect more revenue from those who currently avoid taxes?
You're kidding, right?
Say a company buys $9,000 worth of raw logs, adds $1,000 of labor to process it and sells the lumber for $15,000.
Looks like FICA is 15.3% of $1000. 1.02% of the end product.
How do they avoid them? How do we now collect taxes from foreign visitors?. How much does a crack dealer who is bringing in $50,000 a year in illicit income pay in to social security, medicaid, personal income taxes now? Where do they go to buy their Doritos,beer,food and gold chains? Is there going to be a retail outlet that specializes in waving the fair tax? Are you talking about other groups like Democrat appointees to the Obama administration?
Now we come back to the question, when the hidden taxes are gone and the FairTax is imposed, how do the new prices compare to the old?
I would think that they would be comparable to what they are now. The corporations and businesses that think the new found money in their bottom line will go in their pocket will have their lunch eaten by the companies that see the chance to gain more market share.
Texas I believe is supported entirely by a sales tax. Do you see Texans flocking across the border so as to avoid the high prices in Texas?
Corporate tax rates are currently 35 to 39 percent. This all goes away. Do you think these corporations will just stick the new found money in their pocket?
That's not what I asked.
How much does a crack dealer who is bringing in $50,000 a year in illicit income pay in to social security, medicaid, personal income taxes now?
How much does a crack dealer who is bringing in $50,000 pay under the FairTax and how does that compare to what he pays now?
I would think that they would be comparable to what they are now.
So that crack dealer who spends $50,000 a year gets exactly the same goods for exactly the same money. Plus, he gets a prebate. Sounds like he pays less than before.
Texas I believe is supported entirely by a sales tax. Do you see Texans flocking across the border so as to avoid the high prices in Texas?
I don't live near Texas, I live in Chicago. And I see people going to Indiana to buy gas and cigarettes every day. So what's your point?
Is your calculation of those going to be as weak as your FICA calculation?
Point out any flaws in my attempt to give you an answer.
A new house will cost what the market will bear regardless of whether taxes are collected at the front or the back end.
Not even close
So, where does Texas government get the money to operate its three branches and its numerous social and economic programs? Just less than half of total revenue comes from state taxes (45 percent in 2004). The rest comes from various other non-tax sources, including federal government transfers which account for just slightly more than 35 percent of total state revenue...
http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/9_4_1.html
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