Posted on 09/28/2009 10:15:01 AM PDT by vikk
Claim: John Kerry, you exaggerated your injuries to get 3 purple hearts.
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DOD one day: We have John Kerry’s military medical records on file in accordance with our policies and procedures.
DOD the next year: We reviewed John Kerry’s file and he was awarded 3 purple hearts.
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Did that sufficiently answer the claim?
Thanks. That he was born in HA now seems pretty clear cut. There’s possibly some legs on the argument that he isn’t an NBC with having a non US citizen as a father but we would need SCOTUS to make a definitive ruling on that and I doubt they would take that on.
I reckon his BC contains something embarrassing rather than something that makes him ineligible.
Was nice of the Dr. to include his legal opinion since place of birth is only one of the criteria.
“Did that sufficiently answer the claim?”
Not really. You’re suggesting that HA is being opaque with the truth (but they aren’t actually saying anything false) in order to cover something up. That his birth certificate says he was born in, say, Mombassa but another vital record that they have for him says he was born in Hawaii.
The problem there is that vital records in Hawaii refer to birth, death, marriage and divorce certificates. Which of the others, besides the birth certificate, would they be holding which could hold such data?
Yes, they are being opaque. Or lawyered up, to be more precise.
Adoption, request for HI birth that was allowed for those born abroad, request for HI birth with no hospital records, or a request to amend the BC all are “vital records”. What we do know with 98% certainty is that he has an amended record.
Taken one at a time:
His father was a British citizen and that may make him unqualified.
That argument doesn't seem to hold water. It's well known that his father was a British citizen - Obama has said so himself in writing - yet no judge has acted on it. Why would you say that is?
There are allegations that he wasn't born on US soil
You need more than mere allegations to win in court. You can allege that Obama is a shape-shifting reptile from Mars. That doesn't mean he has to prove he isn't.
Anyone can allege anything about anyone. Our system of justice protects defendants against having to answer frivolous or malicious suits by requiring the accuser to bring valid evidence to court. This is not new - this has always been the way the US system of justice has worked.
Allegations don't cut it. Hunches don't cut it. Guesses don't cut it. Evidence is the only thing that has ever cut it.
Why would you want Orly Taitz or anyone anywhere to be held to anything less than the standards of evidence?
I want to see the law of the land prevail. Don't you? The law requires proof.
false documents posted by his campaign.
Which were those?
Where are the document experts, willing to testify publicly in court and allow their own qualifications and educations to be judged? Who are the experts Taitz is relying on?
Going to court and saying that "some guy on the Internet who doesn't want to be named but who is a document expert, we really really really promise" is not evidence.
Going to court and saying "this other guy who has a lengthy criminal record has the One and Only birth certificate. Really!", is not evidence.
Qualified document experts exist.
Qualified legal minds exist.
If this is really what you believe, why don't like minded people band together and start from there? Why rely on unsubstantiated rumors, people on the Internet, and lawyers who "forget" to sign documents? Why spend money putting up billboards, when you could be hiring competent legal council?
“How many times has she done that?”
Enough for it to be a tradition now.
Yes, they are being opaque. Or lawyered up, to be more precise.
Adoption, request for HI birth that was allowed for those born abroad, request for HI birth with no hospital records, or a request to amend the BC all are “vital records”. What we do know with 98% certainty is that he has an amended record.
One more reason to suspect the COLB is a fraud.
One more reason to suspect the COLB is a fraud.
Again, the Republican Attorney General of Hawaii, Mark Bennett could seek a subpoena for the COLB and he could convene a Grand Jury investigation to determine whether it is fraudulent or a forgery or not. To date, he has not chosen to take such an action.
Both Dr. Fukino and Ms. Okubo serve at the pleasure of the Republican Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle who endorsed John McCain for President and Governor Lingle was a speaker at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul. Those folks have no reason to assist Barack Obama.
I have read different interpretations and sources posted here on the definition of "natural born." This is the first time I have heard that specific one. My conclusion, after reading the various explanations, is that a court should consder tht eissue of his father and make a determination.
Regarding the birth, I'd like to know what's on the certificate and what it says about the candidate. Has he lied about his life in order tio glorify himself to the electorate? Which hospital has a record of the birth? Are theere any witnesses to the birth or the first few days after? This is what a thorough investigative reporter should have done last year and the gaps in information that a records officer has not provided and some of which he cannot provide.
A broader issue for me is that public officials should provide their school, passport, and birth records routinely or at least when requested. I believe we are entitled to know what we can about presidential and other candidates. I would include their school writings. This is not a legal issue per se, but the media should have demanded it a year ago. Anyone refusing to release that information should be shunned by consensus in favor of more transparent candidates. Since this was not done, IMO, we need to continue to demand it now. Truth is the higher value.
No Janice Okubo did not
I am representing my interest in knowing what I can about the important aspects of the person in the WH. I believe we are entitled to that, not by law, but because of the type of gevernment we have. The media failed in this responsibility last year. People bringing up the questions are treated as idiots and radicals for wanting to know the truth.
People tied to go to court last yar and several cases are still alive. People were told they don't have standing. Do we not have the right to an honest election and qualified candidates. Is that right and voting not enough to provide us standing? So ask the judges the question not me.
Last year the secretaries of state and the congress could have asked the natural birth question, but to date, we have been told none of them did. They just took his word. Have you every heard of people that crash special events and no one asks them who they are. Once in a while, they are caught during the event when someone asks the question. That is where we are with this fraud suspect. He just kept on pretending he belonged because no one stopped him at the door and asked for his papers.
It is my ubnderstanding from my reading here and various links that the COLB posted last year was not authentic.
The issue of his father's citizenship needs to be addressed by the USSC, since it is my ubndertsanding that not a lot has been settled on that issue in the past. Difficult for me to believe that the founders intended the son of a British citizen to serve as president under the definition of being "natural born." The fact that no one made a point of it last year merely indicates how hypocritical and weak the media and congress are; especially after calling for McCain's BC.
“Adoption, request for HI birth that was allowed for those born abroad, request for HI birth with no hospital records, or a request to amend the BC all are “vital records”. What we do know with 98% certainty is that he has an amended record.”
But HA will only issue or amend a BC for someone born in a foriegn country if they are legally adopted in Hawaii and even then they don’t change the place of birth to HA, the amended BC retains the original place of birth.
~~ Head spinning ... PING!
PS: I would run the spell check, but bad spelling is my trademark. However, I do like the fact, that when I type OBAMA, the spell check highlights it as an error.
Time for a competent attorney to take over. At this point it’s hard to guess what anyone’s motives are- but this has gotten out of hand.
If that makes loyal Orly fans mad- sorry- but intentions don’t matter a whit in this situation.
Under what law do you hate America? Admiralty law?
The Okubo quotes are toward the end of the article:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/28/worldnetdaily/birthers-claim-gibbs-lied-when-he-said-obamas-birt/
Also, from the June 6, 2009 edition of the Honolulu Star-Bulliten:
Born identity
Birth certificate styles adjust to fit times and regulations
By June Watanabe
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Jun 06, 2009
Question: What is the state’s policy for issuing a “Certification of Live Birth” versus a “Certificate of Live Birth”? My first, second and fourth children received certificates, but my third and fifth children received certifications. Why the difference? The certificate contains more information, such as the name of hospital, certifier’s name and title; attendant’s name and title, etc. The certification has only the child’s name, date and time of birth, sex, city/island/county of birth, mother’s maiden name, mother’s race, father’s name and father’s race. Why doesn’t the state just issue certificates? When did it stop issuing certificates? Is it possible to obtain certificates for my third and fifth children?
Answer: No, you can’t obtain a “certificate of live birth” anymore.
The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.
The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.
And, it’s only available in electronic form.
Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.
“At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting,” she said.
Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.
“The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests,” Okubo said.
Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department “does not have a short-form or long-form certificate.”
“The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,” she said.
Okubo also emphasized the certification form “contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate.”
She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state’s current certification of live birth “as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.”
The issue of what constitutes an official Hawaii birth certificate received national attention during last year’s presidential campaign. Those who doubted Barack Obama’s American citizenship called the copy of the Hawaii birth document posted on his campaign Web site a fake.
Asked about that document, Okubo said, “This is the same certified copy everyone receives when they request a birth certificate.”
We found a discussion of “the truth about Obama’s birth certificate” on the Web site FactCheck.org — www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html.
The organization describes itself as “a nonpartisan, nonprofit ‘consumer advocate’ for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics.”
It says a “certification of live birth” is, in fact, a short-form official birth certificate. Information included in the document might differ from state to state.
http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html
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