Radio Host Delilah Pulls Kids from Crosspoint Academy, Claiming School Teaches Veiled Mormonism

Kitsap Sun ^ | Dec. 25, 2009 | Marietta Nelson

[HungarianGypsy]

She might be good people, but anyone constantly yapping on the radio at night drives me nuts. Especially when you want music on for cuddle time. :)

[urroner]

So, are you saying that you are following the examples of Mormon missionaries. I’m thrilled to hear that.

[narses]

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[Colofornian]

I have no idea what you were trying to tell me.

OK...I was trying not to be direct...use a bit of sarcasm.

So, I'll just be direct. You're encountering "Christians" who were (a) fooling around on the side; and (b) became "Christians" in prison -- only to return there due to a violent crime... (c) only proves that like $, counterfeiters exist. [IOW, it doesn't disprove the reality of either authentic Christians OR authentic $.]

And for you to claim that a Christian witness is "meaningless" to you because of those who have witnessed themselves to be Christians, only to later betray themselves by their lifestyles, is tantamount to saying those who offer you $ in any financial transaction is likewise "meaningless" if you've been burned by counterfeiters in the past.

[the long march]

You are so completely confused I can only say go back and reread what I said. There is NOTHING in what I said that told you what to think or how to live

[Colofornian]

I still can’t find the veiled Mormonism that this woman is opposing.

OK. Let give you an example. I haven't read L. Ron Hubbard's sci-fi books, or his Dianetics book, but let's just say...
(1) that one of Hubbard's sci-fi books is almost "clear" (to use a Scientology term) of veiled references to underlying Scientology philosophy;
(2) then let's say a "Christian" school & "Christian" teacher introduce this singular sci-fi book into a "Christian" curricula;
(3) then let's say a provoked parent disagrees with the school using Hubbard books because even if this one sci-fi book is relatively controversy-free, certainly the author isn't and you need to take all he has written into consideration when you introduce him as an author of "curricula." (Elsewise, what happens when the kid leaves the school, finds other Hubbard books -- including Dianetics -- and then thinks to himself, "Well, my teacher, my school were 'Christians' and they've already OK'd/sanctioned Hubbard stuff"???)

To take this analogy further, what if the above insertion of a Hubbard sci-fi book as "Christian curricula" remained...a parent pulls her kids from that school because of it...and then a follower of Hubbard -- a Scientologist columnist -- starts to lecture this parent for making this parental decision...accusing her of being irrational, bigoted, etc. all because she was exercising parental discretion as to what was going to be sanctioned as "Christian" to her kids?

That in a nutshell is what we have here. And the total lack of discernment by the Christian community -- from...
...the school,
...to other school parents who didn't join Delilah,
...to indifferent Christians who aren't seemingly bothered (which I judge by the lack of posts in this thread from them)
...to others who say, "Gee, I can't seem to understand this bother by provoked Christians?" or "Gee, I can't seem to understand this veiled Scientology-ism" now makes it seem obvious why Jesus was issuing warnings vs. false messiahs (Mt. 24) 2,000 years ago...because it looks to me like many Christians don't have their antennae up to discern what is counterfeit...and why we shouldn't put our stamp of approval on these authors to our next generation.

Appy, in case you didn't see post #10, go back & re-read some of the "7 OTHER principles" Covey adheres to in his book, Divine Center...
Do you so compartmentalize an author that you think students are only going to be influenced in the there & now w/regard to that curricula -- while they potentially ignore other Covey writings?
Or, they come away thinking, "Oh, these Mormons are Christians, after all" -- because they were both approved by their Christian leaders AND they weren't given full-blown Mormonism for them to properly judge what they teach...in this case then, they lose their sensitivity for reaching out to Mormons as a generally lost people group...I say generally because I don't know which Mormons will be saved...I don't know which Mormons will wake up and smell the John 17:3 coffee and begin an eternal relationship with the true God and His Son on this side of the veil.

[urroner]

I think you might have misunderstood me. Just because somebody comes up to me, especially on the internet, and says to that that they have been saved, why should I believe them. Should I believe simply because they said so?

I am berated here because I don’t toe the party line on “true” Christianity and I am told that I haven’t found Christ yet simply because I don’t believe like them, and this is from people who have never met me.

I have yet to meet somebody around here who says, “Hey Urroner, this is what I believe about Christ and this is the evidence of what I believe about Christ.” Instead, I have found people telling me what I believe, even when it isn’t what I believe and people telling me why I’m wrong and then they use scriptures for justification of their rage and anger. But after living in the South for over thirty years, I seen the good and the bad sides of all types of Christianity and to tell you the truth, I prefer to look at the good side, but I haven’t found much of that around here and I keep asking for it and looking for it. Maybe I’ll find it one day.

[urroner]

Maybe Colofornian, you need to wake up and smell the coffee of Christlike love instead of the stench of anger and bitterness.

So basically what you are saying is that anything written or produced by a Mormon should never been used in a proper “true” Christian school.

[greyfoxx39]

So, are you saying that you are following the examples of Mormon missionaries. I’m thrilled to hear that.

WHAT I'm saying is that mormons complaining about what they perceive as the methods of others are complete hypocrites!

[Elsie]

Also, read what some top notch Evangelical scholars had to say about what your MO...

 

 

Wouldn't folks rather read some MORMON 'scripture' instead?

 

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 138

 

A vision, given to President Joseph F. Smith in Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 3, 1918. In his opening address at the eighty-ninth Semiannual General Conference of the Church, on October 4, 1918, President Smith declared that he had received several divine communications during the previous months. One of these, concerning the Savior’s visit to the spirits of the dead while his body was in the tomb, he had received the previous day. It was written immediately following the close of the conference; on October 31, 1918, it was submitted to the counselors in the First Presidency, the Council of the Twelve, and the Patriarch, and it was unanimously accepted by them.

 

1–10, President Joseph F. Smith ponders upon the writings of Peter and our Lord’s visit to the spirit world; 11–24, He sees the righteous dead assembled in paradise and Christ’s ministry among them; 25–37, How the preaching of the gospel was organized among the spirits; 38–52, President Smith sees Adam, Eve, and many of the holy prophets in the spirit world who considered their spirit state before their resurrection as a bondage; 53–60, The righteous dead of this day continue their labors in the world of spirits.

 

---

 1 On the third of October, in the year nineteen hundred and eighteen, I sat in my room pondering over the scriptures;
 2 And reflecting upon the great atoning sacrifice that was made by the Son of God, for the redemption of the world;
 3 And the great and wonderful love made manifest by the Father and the Son in the coming of the Redeemer into the world;
 4 That through his atonement, and by obedience to the principles of the gospel, mankind might be saved.
 5 While I was thus engaged, my mind reverted to the writings of the apostle Peter, to the primitive saints scattered abroad throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, and other parts of Asia, where the gospel had  been preached after the crucifixion of the Lord.  
 6 I opened the Bible and read the third and fourth chapters of the first epistle of Peter, and as I read I was greatly impressed, more than I had ever been before, with the following passages:
 7 “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
 8 “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
 9 “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” (1 Peter 3:18—20.)
10 “For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” (1 Peter 4:6.)
11 As I pondered over these things which are written, the eyes of my understanding were opened, and the Spirit of the Lord rested upon me, and I saw the hosts of the dead, both small and great.
12 And there were gathered together in one place an innumerable company of the spirits of the just, who had been faithful in the testimony of Jesus while they lived in mortality;
13 And who had offered sacrifice in the similitude of the great sacrifice of the Son of God, and had suffered tribulation in their Redeemer’s name.
14 All these had departed the mortal life, firm in the hope of a glorious resurrection, through the grace of God the Father and his Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
15 I beheld that they were filled with joy and gladness, and were rejoicing together because the day of their deliverance was at hand.
16 They were assembled awaiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world, to declare their redemption from the bands of death.
17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy.
18 While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful;
19 And there he preached to them the everlasting gospel, the doctrine of the resurrection and the redemption of mankind from the fall, and from individual sins on conditions of repentance.
20 But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised;
21 Neither did the rebellious who rejected the testimonies and the warnings of the ancient behold his presence, nor look upon his face.
22 Where these were, darkness reigned, but among the righteous there was peace;
23 And the saints rejoiced in their redemption, and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their Redeemer and Deliverer from death and the chains of hell.
24 Their countenances shone, and the radiance from the presence of the Lord rested upon them, and they sang praises unto his holy name.
25 I marveled, for I understood that the Savior spent about three years in his ministry among the Jews and those of the house of Israel, endeavoring to teach them the everlasting gospel and call them unto repentance;
26 And yet, notwithstanding his mighty works, and miracles, and proclamation of the truth, in great power and authority, there were but few who hearkened to his voice, and rejoiced in his presence, and received salvation at his hands.
27 But his ministry among those who were dead was limited to the brief time intervening between the crucifixion and his resurrection;
28 And I wondered at the words of Peter—wherein he said that the Son of God preached unto the spirits in prison, who sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah—and how it was possible for him to preach to those spirits and perform the necessary labor among them in so short a time.
29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them;
30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.
31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.
32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.
33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,
34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
35 And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross.
36 Thus was it made known that our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh;
37 That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words.
38 Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all,
39 And our glorious Mother Eve, with many of her faithful daughters who had lived through the ages and worshiped the true and living God.
40 Abel, the first martyr, was there, and his brother Seth, one of the mighty ones, who was in the express image of his father, Adam.
41 Noah, who gave warning of the flood; Shem, the great high priest; Abraham, the father of the faithful; Isaac, Jacob, and Moses, the great law-giver of Israel;
42 And Isaiah, who declared by prophecy that the Redeemer was anointed to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that were bound, were also there.
43 Moreover, Ezekiel, who was shown in vision the great valley of dry bones, which were to be clothed upon with flesh, to come forth again in the resurrection of the dead, living souls;
44 Daniel, who foresaw and foretold the establishment of the kingdom of God in the latter days, never again to be destroyed nor given to other people;
45 Elias, who was with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration;
46 And Malachi, the prophet who testified of the coming of Elijah—of whom also Moroni spake to the Prophet Joseph Smith, declaring that he should come before the ushering in of the great and dreadful day of the Lord—were also there.
47 The Prophet Elijah was to plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to their fathers,
48 Foreshadowing the great work to be done in the temples of the Lord in the dispensation of the fulness of times, for the redemption of the dead, and the sealing of the children to their parents, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse and utterly wasted at his coming.
49 All these and many more, even the prophets who dwelt among the Nephites and testified of the coming of the Son of God, mingled in the vast assembly and waited for their deliverance,
50 For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.
51 These the Lord taught, and gave them power to come forth, after his resurrection from the dead, to enter into his Father’s kingdom, there to be crowned with immortality and eternal life,
52 And continue thenceforth their labor as had been promised by the Lord, and be partakers of all blessings which were held in reserve for them that love him.
53 The Prophet Joseph Smith, and my father, Hyrum Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and other choice spirits who were reserved to come forth in the fulness of times to take part in laying the foundations of the great latter-day work,
54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.
55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.
56 Even before they were born, they, with many others, received their first lessons in the world of spirits and were prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord to labor in his vineyard for the salvation of the souls of men.
57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.
58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,
59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.
60 Thus was the vision of the redemption of the dead revealed to me, and I bear record, and I know that this record is true, through the blessing of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, even so. Amen.  

 

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

How are you going to lead them to Christ if you start out by insulting them?

It seems to have worked for Joe Smith...

[Elsie]

(I looked for it too; but decided it was your fight and could probably handle it.)

[Elsie]

I am berated here because I don’t toe the party line on “true” Christianity ...

Nope:

You are 'berated here' because you ACCEPT all the false premises that MORMONism puts forth and you are not offended by then.

[Elsie]

So basically what you are saying is that anything written or produced by a Mormon should never been used in a proper “true” Christian school.

Is your head REALLY that hard?

Over and over MORMONism is denounced and you want to focus instead on mormonS.

Give it up.

[the long march]

;) SOmetimes folks amaze and amuse me....

[Vendome]

I actually swiped that from of our discussion earlier, so I could use it as talking points or repost to make a point.

thanks

[Vendome]

BYU is a tough team.

[TradicalRC]

Nothing in the 7 habits book struck me as Mormomist, either explicitly or implicitly. I found it very helpful and practical. You could be a person of any faith and apply these simple practices that are more for focusing on good habits.

[urroner]

BYU has got some great recruits coming the next couple of years. They will have a tough time next year, but in two years, they will be a team to reckon with. I really hope TCU kicks butt in their bowl game.

[urroner]

Give what up? Give up the gospel of Jesus Christ because some people not willing to talk about their beliefs and are too eager to attack the beliefs of others demand me to do so? Sorry, but Christ has taught me differently.

Give up because some people have learnt how to cherry-pick quotations and how to cut and paste hundreds of lines without any explanation, nah, I don’t think so. Why would I?

Give up what Christ has shown me because people chose to denigrate my beliefs while refusing to show the light that they claim Christ has given them from under a bushel. Why should I?

You tell me I’m wrong, yet you refuse to tell me why you are right. Why should I believe you?

You condemn Mormons for following the arm of man since they have prophets, living prophets, yet you demand that we accept what you say simply because you believe it. Well, Christ hasn’t told me to follow what you have told me, so if I were to accept what you said, then I would truly be following the arm of man. No, I’ll still just stick to what the Holy Ghost has shown me.

You condemn me and my fellow Mormons for being arrogant and for thinking that we are better than others, yet you display those same traits in all their glory. You condemn us for what you do.

Just like those two Evangelical scholars said, you are losing the battle and you don’t even know it. And why don’t you know it, because you have closed you eyes and continue to do the mantra that Pharisees used so ineffectively against Christ.

You refuse to discuss issues, your only desire is to destroy the faith of all those who believe differently from you. I thought that a Christlike person would want to build the faith of others and not destroy it.

Christ asked us to let our lights so shine, yet your main goal, as far as I can see, is to snuff out the lights of others.

Christ has asked you to be a fisher of men, but instead of using a net to bring many to Christ, you use a trident to try to kill.

Thirty years ago, I was like you. I wanted to show others all the things they believed were wrong. I destroyed a preacher in front of his family by hammering him with scriptures. I felt great, well, I felt great until I say my prayers that night before going to bed and God let me know that what I had done was against His will. I had been called to show His light to others, but I was only trying to snuff it out. Because of this, I don’t use His word as weapons anymore.

If you truly think that you’re doing any good and bringing other to Christ by venting you anger and bitterness against us Mormons, by all means, please continue to do so. If you believe that is exactly what Christ wants you to do, then please do exactly what Christ has asked you to do.

If at the end of the day, when you go to the Lord in prayer, you can hear the Father saying to you “My child, I am pleased with you, you have brought more love to all of my children today,” then you are truly doing the Father’s will and not your will.

A clear conscience is softer than any pillow at nighttime.