Skip to comments.Tennessee gun in park incident reveals a scarier danger
Posted on 12/28/2009 3:51:18 AM PST by marktwain
The sight of a man openly carrying a firearm in a Nashville-area park has scared some people, resulting in a law enforcement response. From the Associated Press:
A man carrying an AK-47-style semiautomatic pistol was detained at Radnor Lake State Park on Sunday after startled hikers complained to park rangers.
Some would consider that a scary-looking gun. Some would consider coloring the muzzle tip orange so it looks like an Airsoft gun scary. And some would consider gun owner Leonard Embody's choice of apparel, "a camouflage jacket, military boots and a black skull cap" scary.
That's how hiker Ellen Thomas described her encounter with Embody. And even Minneapolis Gun Rights Examiner and Open Carry.org co-founder John Pierce, who is quoted in this story, concedes appearances can be problematic.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
“AK-47-style semiautomatic pistol”
I want one.
“”a camouflage jacket, military boots and a black skull cap” “
Sounds like a cop.
“AK-47-style semiautomatic pistol.”
LOL I almost bought one of those for my kids.
Kinda torn on this. Why would you add a day glow orange tip to a real gun?
Standing up for your rights is one thing. Doing stuff like this is stupid.
They make AR-15 style pistols too.
There is a whole thread on this incident and this guy at Glocktalk.
Seems the guy in question likes to incite crap. Not one to try and open carry quietly, he tries to cause incidents, then go and troll forums stirring things up more.
The act of painting the tip orange to make it seem like an airsoft gun or toy shows another twist to things that is not cool either.
While there are enough incidents of cops overreaching concerning people carrying weapons legally, please don’t lend this clown any credibility-he is seeking more than a confrontation to prove his rights, like other carry advocates-he is seeking it to cause trouble.
My 2 cents.
The cop’s comment from the police forum is so indicative of many police attitudes; “sneeze and I’ll blow your s#$% away.” A policeman has no right to commit an assault with a deadly weapon any more than I do. These jack booted thugs are laid to rest for their unlawful acts.
Why would you want one of those? It would be very hard to hold on target or shoot accurately. Buy an MP5 if you want a short rifle. Buy a handgun if you want a handing.
This guy sounds like a loon.
“like other carry advocates-he is seeking it to cause trouble.”
Open carry advocates are not seeking to cause trouble.
This guy is a loon and harming the cause.
Yes he is.
I may have written that wrong and caused confusion-did not mean other carry advocates try to cause trouble.
I meant he was unlike them in that he incites confrontation just to cause trouble.
They put the orange tip on the gun so fools can know it is a toy. My friends dress up and play this all the time in the woods. People should mind their own business. He just walked passed these people.
I wouldn't want one of those. It is a way to get around the 16" minimum barrel length though.
“It is a way to get around the 16” minimum barrel length though.”
I guess, still looks stupid though. IMHO
“My friends dress up and play this all the time in the woods. People should mind their own business”
According to the accounts this was a real firearm to which he added the orange tip. A firearm is not a toy. Making a real firearm look like a toy is a stupid dangerous action that only a fool or a criminal would do. It gives ammunition to the anti-gunners who are seeking to take all guns.
This guy and anyone who does this deserves public condemnation.
If a person holding a weapon, (whether it has an orange tip on it or not) refuses commands, then deadly force would not only be permitted, but would be expected.
A lot of good he did.
I saw the post he was commenting on and it is not in the same context as what you are saying.
“sneeze and Ill blow your s#$% away” is what the supposed cop stated. That sounds like someone who shouldn’t have a gun let alone a badge.
The loon in this case didn’t decline any commands so use of deadly force would be murder.
They exist, and apparently this guy broke no laws.
The man had no beat down club.
That's true. And if you purachase an AR-15 lower by itself, the purchase is treated as a handgun purchase for just that reason!
If a suspect is holding a weapon and does not comply with commands, (IE: does anything other than what they are told) then deadly force would be permissible and expected. It wouldn't matter if the suspect were legally armed or not.
I understand what you are saying. I’m saying that the post in question was apparently written by someone too unstable to make that judgement call.
Case here just last week. A domestic at the supermarket led to the cops being called. The woman waved the cop off and they drove away. Cop followed them until they stopped to argue some more. Guy went for a gun to shoot the cop and possible the woman and 3 young kids in the back. Woman wrestled with the man for the gun. Cop tried the tazer but failed to control the guy. The cop fired one shot and the guy was dead.
Heck of a Christmas memory for those three kids but he didnt have much choice.
It looks like he wasn’t ‘trolling’ the forums. He actually did what he said he did, and it was legal to boot. All those forums were wrong to call it a joke. I saw a guy on IRC saying he did the same thing, might have been him. I thought it was nuts, but apparently it’s legal.
I see people FR defending stupid AND illegal drug use all the time. If this guy wasn’t breaking any laws, what really is the problem? He was correct to say if this should be illegal, make it so.
Personal preference ... it's called freedom. *shrug*
” Personal preference ... it’s called freedom. *shrug* “
thats stupid, day glow orange tips were added to toys after kids playing with toy guns were shot by cops.
Saying you paint the tip orange to exercise ‘freedom’ is like saying you play russian roulette to enjoy your 2nd amendment rights.
Doing so causes confusion, which is probably your real reason. It creates additional safety hazards and provides ammunition to the gun banners.
‘If this guy wasnt breaking any laws, what really is the problem? “
Because we don’t need a law to tell us when behavior is stupid.
I think I would support making it illegal to paint the tip of your gun orange.
The whole point ot the orange tips is to protect kids from getting shot by police officers.
It would be like waving a white flag and then shooting the people who come to meet you.
Unless someone can come up with a good reason to paint the tip of a real gun orange, that is.
We do give up small amounts of freedom to do meaningless things in the interest of the general welfare. Marking a gun like a toy seems like a reasonable thing to prohibit, in the interest of kids being allowed to play with toy guns.
We don’t do everything we have a right to do, because we live in a civilized society, where we respect the feelings of others and try to minimize harm, NOT because we are legally required to do so, but because we have manners and respect for our fellow man.
So while you can legally eat large amounts of baked beans, and then legally go stand in the middle of crowds and fart uncontrollably, most of us don’t, and we consider those who do as undesirable.
People who deliberately go beyond what they need to protect themselves and others with their weapons, simply to provoke feelings of fear and anger in others, are not behaving in a civilized, mannerly way.
They can be defended on a legal basis, and yet we can still make fun of them for being boorish.
Yes, that is stupid. Attempting to add more confusion to an already tense situation can be called nothing but stupid.
But this guy, the guy who was carrying the AK pistol, is going to take it to an all new level. He has been inquiring about armor piercing ammo and is trying to buy a suppressor according to some of his post on other forums.
It would not suprise me in the least to see commit suicide by cop. Luckily the police are well aware of his postings and history now.
Getting attention to make people aware is one thing. This is just plain crazy.
So you’re opposed to legal open carry? It seems the main problem he had was the cops didn’t know it was a pistol. I’d say the police were the real problems here.
You say it so much better than I do.
Then again the right of free sppeech does not allow you to yell “Fire!” in a crowded auditorium.
Justified as he may be under Tennesee law; this fellow is still as thick as two short planks.
As far as getting blown away by some over-zealous cop - it may not go down that way. He could also be dropped by a nervous rookie or anopther armed civilian who felt threatened and would possibly mistake any movement as aggression.
This fellow probably has no idea he is slightly unhinged and sees himself as some kind of crusader.
Sooner or later there will be a reaction to this jerk and he will be lucky to come out alive.
No, I’m opposed to people painting their real guns to make them look like toys, and parading around a park scaring people needlessly.
Painting the tip of a weapon orange as an attempt to make someone believe it was a toy, in effect, conceals the weapon. If a person does not have a concealed weapon permit this could be illegal.
Would a camo or OD green job on it do that as well?
From the picture I saw, it looked like an AK-47 rifle without the shoulder stock.
“Would a camo or OD green job on it do that as well?”
No. Painting the tip orange obscures the fact that it is a weapon. Painting it some other color - probably does not.
“No, Im opposed to people painting their real guns to make them look like toys, and parading around a park scaring people needlessly.”
I’m opposed as well, but wouldn’t people be less scared if it looked like a toy? I don’t think your argument works...
The fact remains: We have a right to bear arms. And evidently, Mr. Embody violated no law.
The debate will continue. But out of all of this, here's what I found most scary--another forum discussion, this time on Officer.com. From forum member "stlcopper," self-described as "'Heavy Hand' of the Law":
I just don't understand why the 1st Ranger encountered didn't draw down and put you on your face! That would've been my 1st move and if you so much as sneezed at me while holding that thing, I'd blow your shnit away!!!
For exercising a right and not violating any law...? Do we really think we're safer if this guy, and those like him, are the "Only Ones" bearing arms?
I sometimes wonder if it isn't the police community who really want to ban guns. They seem to want law abiding citizens to never resist or protect themselves, just call 911.
And perhaps on purpose!
Theres a gun in that pic?
Of course there are anti-gunners on FR, just as there are liberals posing as pro gun rights people.
Defending the behavior of this clown is not a positive thing. What he’s doing endangers himself and others. It also gives the anti’s a great example to use in their propaganda. For people sitting on the fence they see this and consider it irresponsible.
Guns are not toys and should never be treated as such.