Posted on 01/14/2010 1:17:00 PM PST by ZGuy
Since you all are just dying to hear my opinion re: Pat Robertson’s remarks... /s
Here it is. Even though the vast majority of Haitians are Roman Catholic, they aren’t very “pure” in that faith. Voodoo has taken over, and been mixed in with the Catholicism.
I am guessing that Mr. Robertson considers voodoo similar to Satan worship, and it seems logical to me, even though I do not know much about voodoo, that this practice doesn’t lead to a successful social fabric, law and order, reasonably high moral standards.
So, even though Robertson is very “old-tyme” religion in how he states his position, there is some truth to what he says. A society that practices voodoo isn’t organized enough to deal with what we consider normal daily life, never mind a disaster like this.
In defense of Pat Robertson
Date: 1/15/2010 9:05:32 AM
Here is what Pat Robertson actually said this week about Haiti:
Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French . . . and they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, “We will serve you if you’ll get us free from the French.” True story. And so the devil said, “OK, it’s a deal.” . . . Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another, desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It’s cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is, is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have, and we need to pray for them, a great turning to God, that out of this tragedy, I’m optimistic that something good may come. But right now we’re helping the suffering people, and the suffering is almost unimaginable.
Pat Robertson has been pilloried by everyone, Christians included, for making reference to Haiti’s ancient pact with the devil. No one, to my knowledge, has criticized the timing of his comments; rather all have criticized the truthfulness of his comments.
It’s one thing to criticize him for making a true but untimely comment, to suggest that to mention this dark part of Haiti’s past is insensitive and lacking in Christian compassion.
But that’s not what he is being criticized for. He is being criticized for saying something untrue, and that’s a whole different thing.
Robertson did not say that God caused the earthquake. What he said, if people actually listened rather than reacting with hysterical hissy fits, is that Haiti’s grinding poverty is a result of its pact with the devil. “Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another, desperately poor.”
It is a matter of historical record that Haiti’s independence from France is, in fact, rooted in a pact with the devil made on August 14, 1791 by a group of voodoo priests led by a former slave named Boukman. The pact was made at a place called Bois-Caiman, and the tree under which a black pig was sacrificed in this ceremony is still a shrine in Haiti. Annual voodoo ceremonies are conducted every August 14 on this very site, essentially renewing the covenant with darkness each summer. An iron statue of a pig stands today in Port-au-Prince to commemorate the Boukman contract with the devil.
During the ceremony in 1791, a priestess was possessed by a spirit called Ezili Dantor and it was this spirit who received the offering of the black pig.
Hundreds of slaves drank the pig’s blood and pledged to exterminate all the white Frenchmen on the island, while Boukman asked for Satan’s help in liberating Haiti from their French overlords. In exchange, the voodoo priests offered to dedicate Haiti to Satan for 200 years. The slave rebellion drove the French from Hispaniola and Haiti declared its independence on January 1, 1804.
On national TV, Haiti’s ambassador to the U.S. openly admitted, while criticizing Robertson, that Haiti did in fact enter in to this pact with the devil. In fact, he adds that America should be grateful for this pact, since the slave revolt that followed the creation of this pact prompted Napoleon to sell the Louisiana Purchase to the United States.
Prior to this slave revolt, under French colonial rule, Haiti was known as the “Pearl of the Antilles” for its singular beauty and the richness of its resources. It engaged in robust trade in cocoa, cotton, sugar cane and coffee and by 1780 was one of the richest regions in the world.
Tragically, however, the plantation system that made this wealth possible was built on the backs of slaves imported from West Africa who brought with them their occult practices of spirituality.
The 200 years, of course, expired on January 1, 2004, but on April 8, 2003 dictator and president Jean-Bertrand Aristide extended the pact by declaring voodoo to be an officially recognized religion in Haiti. Haiti is officially Roman Catholic, but as the BBC says, it is a common saying among Haitians that Haiti is 70% Catholic, 30% Protestant, and 100% voodoo.
Robertson then went on to say that we must hope that this crisis will lead to “a great turning to God” among the Haitians, and that “right now we’re helping the suffering people,” whose suffering is “ almost unimaginable.” As he spoke, a phone number appeared on the screen, which viewers could use to donate to the relief effort.
On his program, Shepard Smith of FOX News made harshly critical comments about Robertson. As he spoke, a phone number likewise appeared on the screen. It was the number for the U.S. State Department. In other words, the hard-hearted Robertson was actively soliciting relief aid while the compassionate Smith was handing out a number for government bureaucrats.
It’s remarkable that well-meaning conservatives would criticize Robertson for saying these things.
Let’s summarize:
1. Pat Robertson said that Haiti made a pact with the devil in exchange for freedom from slavery. This is historically true. No one in Haiti disputes this, and Haiti’s ambassador confirmed it on U.S. television.
2. Robertson did not say that the earthquake was a result of this curse, or was God’s fault. Instead, Robertson attributed Haiti’s grinding poverty to this compact with Satan. Jesus himself said that the thief comes only to “steal and kill and destroy.”
3. Robertson said he hopes this crisis will lead many in Haiti to turn to God, and that we need to pray to that end.
4. Robertson said that the unimaginable suffering of the Haitians should prompt us to come their aid.
Which one of these statements, exactly, can any believer in the Judeo-Christian tradition challenge? Secularists, and even many conservative commentators, appear to have falsely criticized Robertson for things he did not say, while paying little or no attention to things he actually did say. I’m sticking with Pat on this one.
Pauline
Let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us: and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it.
“Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32
Some years ago, Supreme Court Justice Scalia told a Christian audience to “have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity . . . and the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world.”
Why the elipses? Could it be because of the part about Napoleon III who wasn’t even a glimmer in his mother’s eye at time.
DEBAUCHERY HAS BEEN PATIENTLY AND THOROUGHLY INSTILLED INTO THE LIVES OF AMERICANS FOR DECADES. DEBAUCHERY IS THE PRODUCT OF THE DEVIL. THE SPIRITUAL WAR CONTINUES AS THE PEOPLE IGNORE THE WARNINGS; AS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE TURN THEIR BACKS ON GOD, OUR OWN HALLOWED CREATOR. UNTIL THEY REPENT AND TURN FROM THEIR SINS, WHICH ARE LEGION, THIS COUNTRY WILL CONTINUE TO WITHER AND DIE.
SEE MY POSTS 122 AND 124
I am a Christian and Robertson is a good Christian. However, he does great harm to the Christian cause when he makes stupid remarks such as this at a time of great suffering in Haiti. No one except God knows why this tragedy occurred. He’s been on the world stage long enough to know how his remarks would be interpreted. Why give the opposition ammunition?
And that is soooo off topic I can’t even phatom what you mean. Pat Robertson is a jerk. He may have some qualities that elevate him in your mind, not mine. He claims things that are factually NOT true. He claims to be able to thwart hurricane paths. He claims all sorts of things. Blasphemy often takes that form.
Frankly I find the way most Christians observe holy communion to be a tad difficult to understand ~ best way is sitting down in your pew and passing the plates of bread and wine. Anything other than that is highly questionable (in my view). You may not agree. Does that make you evil?
Whether you knew it or not, that is the topic that occupies the entirity of the Mahabarat ~ and Krishna is the main player there.
BTW, Krishna says several times that he didn't come to make men perfect, but to make them capable of understanding this overwhelming issue.
Now I don't want to denigrate your choice of subtopics in this thread ~ it's really quite on the mark. We are all involved in a "bettle between good and evil".
Sometimes it heats up a tad ~ as it did for the writers of the Mahabarat, and as it was for those who composed and sang "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" ~ .
It says so, in so many words, too:
To Wit: Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His day is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on."
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Since God is marching on.
He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
While God is marching on.
He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.
Blasphemy, like hypocrisy, is frequently little more than a difference in the interpretation of similar doctrines and is MOSTLY in the mind of the observer.
I was referring to Pat Robertson’s specific comment not a book about theology or the nature of man.
You have tried to turn this into some sort of theological discussion which it is not.
Don’t bother responding I won’t read the blather
Pat Robertson is still OK by me. Why should I join the stooge media and try to gin up animosity to Christians...because that is their sub-agenda. To ridicule all believers
Actually not: http://www.americandaily.com/article/95
You are the guy who brought up the “good and evil” thing ~ not me. Still, if you wish to discuss it we can do so ~ whether from the Hindu point of view, or the Jewish, or the Christian, or the Moslem, or even the Atheist.
And yet he's still a jackass.
Can you understand PLAIN English?????
Remember, when you raise an issue on FR, however inadvertently, you may well be called on it by ANY MEMBER.
You don't like the rule, there are other places.
You haven’t ‘called’ me on anything. When your light bulb burns out, be sure and attribute that to the battle between good and evil.
Part of why Christians face ridicule is because of the type of illogic you have displayed.
Sorry, that's not the way it works here.
You are so off base. Look you can ‘misinterpret’ what I worte all you want. I discussed the issue and you took it somewhere illogical and completely off track. Then you claimed it was all good because you were ‘calling me out’.
I am not at all sure what YOU think “MY KIND” are but I would wager that you have NO idea of what my kind are....
Have a nice day
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