Posted on 03/06/2010 2:53:56 AM PST by Las Vegas Dave
A class action lawsuit against Panasonic was filed February 12, claiming an increase in the brightness of black levels, as well as a corresponding decrease in contrast ratio that is detrimental to picture quality.
The suit, filed in federal court in New Jersey, alleges that "the television is no longer producing the same image quality that [Panasonic] represented it would produce."
We first learned of the suit when we contacted a Panasonic representative while seeking comment regarding our most recent test results on black-level performance. That test did find worse performance in two aged 2009 Panasonic plasma TVs.
The company could not comment on the results, citing the pending litigation. Here's the full text of Panasonic's response:
Unfortunately, after our discussions about providing you with further information, a lawsuit regarding this issue was filed. While we believe that the lawsuit is baseless, since this is now a matter in litigation, Panasonic company policy prohibits us from responding to your questions.
If you are interested, the lawsuit is pending in federal court in Newark, N.J., filed under docket number 2:10-CV-00846.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462105-1.html?tag=mncol;txt
Panasonic has confirmed that its plasma TVs reproduce brighter black levels by design as they age, but will not divulge exactly how much brighter after how long. New testing conducted by CNET provides some hints.
Results from two aged Panasonic plasma TVs purchased in 2009 indeed show brighter blacks, and correspondingly reduced picture quality, compared with similar 2009 models with fewer hours.
The two aged TVs were a TC-P50G10 owned by CNET Senior Editor John Falcone and a TC-P42G10 loaned to us by CNET reader Efrain Perez. Both had approximately 1,500 hours of use, which at the average rate of 5.2 hours per day works out to about 9.6 months of age, at the time testing was conducted. We also measured another 50-inch TC-P50G10 and a 50-inch TC-P50V10, each with about 500 hours.
According to our measurements, the models with 1,500 hours both reproduced black at 0.023 footlamberts; the 500-hour models measured 0.008.
In an attempt to corroborate the measurements with real-world material, we conducted a side-by-side viewing session, attended by CNET staff and otherwise modeled after our standard TV test procedure, that pitted Efrain's TV against the 50-inch V10. When we originally compared a G10 with the V10 in 2009, using new review samples, we called their black level performance "basically the same."
That wasn't the case this time around. In dark scenes from "The Dark Knight" on Blu-ray, the 500-hour V10 clearly displayed a darker shade of black than the 1,500-hour G10, leading to more-realistic reproduction of nighttime city-scapes in Chapters 2 and 8, for example, the rooftop parlay in Chapter 8, and the silhouette of Bruce Wayne as he enters the room in Chapter 18. The difference was also visible in letterbox bars, albeit less so, in numerous brighter scenes. This viewing session was conducted with each TV set to the default THX picture mode, with no adjustments made to any picture settings.
Questions linger The differences we observed and measured could be the result of what the company calls the normal aging process. According to Panasonic's statement, made after we first reported user complaints about this issue: "...Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control, which adjusts an internal driving voltage at predetermined intervals of operational hours. As a result of this automatic voltage adjustment, background brightness will increase from its initial value."
For what it's worth, however, these increases in black level performance over time don't seem normal in our experience. I haven't noticed any sudden change in black level on my 2005 Panasonic at home, for example, and a Pioneer Kuro we've used as a reference since September 2008 shows no increase.
Unfortunately we're still not sure about the true extent of the loss in black level performance. The sample size involved in our test is still quite small among the thousands of Panasonic plasma TVs sold last year. In addition, we have yet to observe or measure any substantial change in the models we're testing. The only way to know for sure how these TVs change as they age is to conduct a long-term test using more samples, something that's currently beyond CNET's resources.
We contacted Panasonic with these test results but the company declined to comment because of pending litigation related to the issue.
In the past the company claimed in response to our questions that the proprietary information regarding specific hour counts is a trade secret, and that black level performance is difficult to measure. In our experience, however, it's relatively simple to get consistent results (see our procedure below).
'But really, will I notice the difference?' Panasonic also claims that "Customer satisfaction with our Viera Plasma's has been excellent. We are confident that the long-term black level performance will continue to provide customers with an excellent picture over years of use."
But in Efrain's case at least, customer satisfaction is not excellent. He tells us he first noticed the change himself "around late December/early January while I was watching 'Blade Runner' in the dark." He hadn't yet read about the issue on CNET, and had never previously visited AVS Forum where the first reports surfaced. He called the change "really noticeable and detrimental," and said he didn't agree with the characterization by Panasonic's Bob Perry calling it "subtle even among trained experts." Efrain does not consider himself a videophile or a video quality expert.
In an e-mail exchange he told us:
As for the TV's current performance, I am disappointed by it. Prior to purchasing the Panasonic G10, I owned a 2008 Samsung LN40A650 40-inch LCD, and I decided to switch to plasma because of the exceptional black levels and viewing angles it affords. When I first got the Panasonic, I loved it. The blacks were as deep as I have ever seen on a plasma outside of the Pioneer KURO. But now, to my eyes, the black levels on my G10 have diminished to the point that it looks more like my old Samsung when viewed from the "sweet spot" in the middle.
Efrain contacted Panasonic in late January and after getting nowhere with the company's customer service--the rep actually sent him Panasonic's original February 3 statement one day later--offered to send us his TV for testing.
Like other customers who have noticed the loss on black-level performance, many of whom posted comments to our stories, Efrain bought the TV expecting a certain level of picture quality. Like most of those customers and many CNET readers in general, he's evidently a tech enthusiast who weighs his buying decisions carefully.
So is John Falcone, and he didn't notice the change at all on his TV at home, which also measured the same elevated black levels. John says he rarely watches in a completely darkened room. Echoing his sentiments, numerous other commenters to our stories claim not to have noticed any increase.
Implications for reviews Like many other picture quality characteristics, differences in black levels can be subtle and are highly dependent on room lighting, program material, and picture settings. In our TV reviews, however, we often have to compare between characteristics many viewers would call subtle. We consider black-level performance the most important aspect of picture quality, and Panasonic's 2009 plasma TVs scored as well as they did mainly because of their excellent black-level performance compared with other displays.
After seeing Efrain's TV compared with a V10, we feel justified in changing our evaluation of its black-level performance from "excellent" to "very good."
Whether the increase is noticed by everyone or even a majority of viewers, the results we measured on two different models, and saw in our side-by-side comparison, are enough to make us modify our reviews of all 2009 Panasonic plasma TVs accordingly (yet again). Their Performance scores will be reduced across the board by one point, bringing them more into line with the competition in light of their increased black levels.
How those black levels will hold up over the years to come is still an open question, one that only Panasonic can answer at this point. The company says its new 2010 models will incorporate a "more gradual change in black levels over time." We've been promised an early review sample of those TVs, and we'll call them as we see them--though the fact that these problems have taken hundreds of hours to manifest may call early impressions into question.
Black-level test methodology Each Panasonic 2009 plasma television was measured using the following procedure. The TV was connected to a Sony PlayStation 3 via HDMI (settings) and set to THX picture mode. In the "Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics" Blu-ray disc, the 0 percent test pattern (under "Advanced Video Test Patterns") was then displayed onscreen and the player paused. The brightness control was adjusted until the outermost blacker-than-black bars on the pattern just disappeared (one more click of brightness upwards would make them reappear). Then TV would be set to its "scrolling bar" mode for 5 minutes to remove remaining image retention. After 1 minute displaying the 0 percent pattern, the middle of the screen was measured using the same Konica Minolta LS-100 luminance meter for all measurements, and the results, in footlamberts, reported above.
The engineers that designed the plasma technology laughed when they heard that companies were going to market plasma television. They knew about its limitations of not holding picture quality over time.
People have known about that issue with plasma fading for years.
I'm having a little trouble parsing this sentence.
Does it mean that the televisions were designed to degrade after a certain usage, in other words, were they designed to become obsolescent?
OR
Does it mean that the technology as designed has certain limitations in and of itself?
God choices, I also have a Bravia, and just got the Sony Blu-Ray all in one Home theater, sounds awesome!!!!! EBW-500 I believe....
Apparently at the Vancouver Winter Olympics Panasonic brought in and set up prototype 150 inch plasmas for public viewing of Olympic stuff. Only about 10 exist so far and they were all in Vancouver.
As I understand it, plasma TVs naturally lose picture quality over time and the manufacturers have programmed an automatic and gradual decrease in the black level to compensate. They’re attempting to maintain an overall better picture, but it comes at the expense of the deeper black levels buyers appreciate in their new plasma TVs. In time, the pricier plasma TV loses its picture quality advantage vs. the cheaper technologies in other TVs. It’s not a matter of planned obsolescense.
I am in the market for a new TV (mostly for my wife since I watch very little). I need to learn something about these technologies. Any suggestions?
How big a TV do you want? I'm looking at getting something in the 40-42" size with 1080p resolution and 120 Hz refresh--that right now comes down to either the Samsung LN40C630, Sony KDL-40EX500, or VIZIO M420NV in my case.
A lightning strike did in my 35 inch Mitsubishi tube television that I bought in the early 90s or I wouldn't be buying one at all.
I have liked and been fascinated by LCDs ever since I bought my first Casio watch in 1987. Since 1999 I have only bought and used LCD monitors and since 2005 LCD TVs. I never liked CRTs
I would recommend an Lcd tv, Sony and Sharp make some of the best as far as reviewers are concerned and in my opinion as well. Also, the larger tvs have become less expensive, however, take into consideration how close you will be setting to the television, if you will be close you will start to notice the pixelation of the image, a big tv breaks that image down to pixels, little squares of data, so if you will be close to the image it will appear blocky. You can get away with a 50 inch tv with at least fifteen feet between you and the tv without noticing a degredation of the image. When your looking at the tvs in the showroom beware they often increase the brightness of more expensive televisions to make you think those tvs are better, this is not necessarily true. Stay away from plasma, the blacks will apear more black but the plasma fades over time. Lcds will appear more white, for they have little lights that make up each pixel to compose an image, but there blacks are less black. Lcd is the way to go, if your looking for a lower priced tv with good quality, I would also recommend LG, they can be found at costco for a steal. And of course, you need to shop around, but be aware best buy will try to sell you all kinds of accessories you don’t need. If you have cable they will give you the necessary cables for free. In addition, make sure it is an HDTV and be aware if you have cable or directv, you will need to get the necessary box to allow for viewing of HD channels, again they will give you the cables needed to view true HD for free, so don’t pay for them, just ask. One more thing, cable is often lower quality vs directv, this is due to compression of the digital signal, I would recommend Directv for HD, cable tends to compress the image and the HD is blurred on the sides due to bandwidth. when you get your tv, drop the sharpness down to 7 or 12, you will notice a better image, it is often cranked up by the manufacture; however, it ony blurs the image when cranked too high, so bring it down. Best of luck to you, I hope this helps.
I’m going to join a class action lawsuit against the auto industry for making cars with fuel tanks that go empty.
Panasonic can donate some plasma, and all will be forgiven.
I did a quick search for HDTV viewing distance formulas, (and the formulas can vary), a few sites that may help are:
http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/HDTV_Viewing_Distance.htm
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=4363&post=3506
http://www.sdinfo.com/the-primers/137-viewing-distance-defined.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/the-primers/137-viewing-distance-defined.html
And from SONY;
http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/documents/article/HomeAudioandVideo/theultimateguide.pdf
Diamond-Vision was a great technology in it's time. I had a 32" Those were nice sets.
Go bigger than 40”.
Our LR is about 23’ long, we sit about 15-18’ away and the new Samsung 52” LCD is about perfect.
I went to Best Buy to look at LEDs and they made me a offer on a LCD I couldn’t refuse.
If the LED picture was better, and that is doubtful, I couldn’t discern it. And the LED was another $1k.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.