Posted on 03/24/2010 9:36:01 AM PDT by parkerj
What are you talking about offended? Why phrases like the whore of Babylon are okay? Give me a break. FR is for free discussion. I don’t need you to tell me what can be discussed. I only questioned the article because the Church actually opposed the health care bill. You had dissident elements within the Church agitating for it. I grant you that and the Catholic bishops need to deal with that.
I wrote a post about Catholic bias to the fellow that used the “whore of Babylon” epithet. I just questioned the article given that the Church opposed the health care bill. I agree with you there are elements within the Church that equate social justice with the Federal government and Statism but that’s not everyone and they can be opposed especially given a cardinal point of Catholic social teaching: subsidiarity which basically teaches that a social problem ought to be dealt with at the lowest level possible on the most personal level possible.
What apostasy?
What are you talking about? You engaged in a personal attack. Is that your notion of argument? Well then yes it would be a waste of time talking with you.
You put words in my mouth, and thus lie, when you imply I said that’s OK.
What are you talking about? Putting words in your mouth? I referenced what you posted.
What are YOU talking about, ramp?
This is a fairly new (and uninformed) take on the mercy and justice) of God.
God is fully merciful. Gos is fully just.
Period. That’s it, folks!
I'm staying on the sidelines on this one for the most part, but this is just incorrect. "Social justice" was the rallying cry of the famous (or infamous depending on your point of view) Father Charles Edward Coughlin during the 1930's. His organization was called the National Union for Social Justice and his publication was named Social Justice.
The USCCB had NO problem with ANY part of ObamaCare (TerriSchiavoCare) except the abortion funding.
So I am reminding people: every time you see a horror caused by TerriSchiavoCare, remember that the USCCB supported this.
They withdrew their support at the last minute, just as Stupak caved.
1) The push for “social justice”, which is simply socialism, which is based on breaking 1/3 of the horizontal Commandments, and probably 1/2 of the vertical Commandments.
2) Failing to condemn, rebuke, and correct the “members” for condoning and supporting the killing of the unborn, the shedding of innocent blood, which is one of the big things that the Lord hates.
The quote from the Catholic dogma was a list where each enumerated item is opposed by the Catholic church. The sentence could be correctly rendered:
"She has likewise refused to accept in the practice of capitalism and individualism"This profession of doctrine could be construed to say:
"She rejects individualism and supports collectivism"If you don't support individualism, then by deduction you support some form of collectivism.
To the critical reader, the article was about Catholics using government, who are highly fallible sinners, to execute their concept of "social justice". This form of "justice" is nothing more than imposed collectivism that's marketed as compassion, duty, responsibility, God's command, and so on.
Social engineering has created the largest crisis this nation has ever faced. Among other things, it is responsible for forcing banks to loan to people who couldn't afford what they were buying - because it was "just" and equitable.
Now we are sitting on over $114 TRILLION in debt and obligations - mostly for Medicare and Social Security. Thanks to this imposition on the free markets and usurpation of individual rights under the guise of collective responsibility toward one another - our country is now just like the zombie banks. Our elected officials use fraudulent accounting to stave off a social and political revolt, but we're effectively insolvent.
I think it's fantastic that the Catholic church supports charity to the needy. But, it becomes a HUGE problem when they help to elect officials (or become one), who's goals are to enshrine their rejection of individualism by establishing laws that wind up thwarting individual liberties - which is the very foundation of the constitution.
Citizens are now subjugated to the IRS so that the wise men and women on The Hill can appropriate our charitable contributions for us greedy, irresponsible free market capitalists. This becomes a negative feedback loop where more and more people become dependent on the productivity of a few to provide for the many - all doled out by the DemocRAT masters who are looking out for the general welfare of the little people - the noble protectorate of the oppressed - fighting against the greed and corruption of the evil individualistic capitalists.
Now Nancy Pelosi (Catholic Democrat) can have another meeting with the Pope to report that the mission has been accomplished. Teddy Kennedy (Catholic Democrat) and her health care reform has protections for the unborn, covers millions of citizens and visitors from around the world (illegals), reduces premiums, eliminates exemptions, reduces the deficit, grows the economy, and improves the delivery system as well as the quality of outcomes!
If you haven't already done so, or haven't heard them in some time, I urge you to visit YouTube and find Ronald Reagan's old speeches that are posted in their entirety and listen to at least his '64 Goldwater convention address and his inaugural addresses to congress."Capitalism, again in the common usage of the term, includes things like multinational corporations, credit default swaps, and the revolving door between the Big Four accounting firms, tax funded bailouts, and the Department of the Treasury, the SEC and the Commodities Futures Commission and so on."
I have worked for and with many of the very top-tier companies, as well as many innovative boutique and startup companies for almost 30 years. I have never heard anyone express the concept of capitalism in the manner that you described it.
In addition, I received an MBA from a private Catholic university, graduating with Highest Honors (4.0/4.0 GPA). While I'm not a Catholic (the maternal side of my family is), I decided to attend that rather expensive school because of the exceptional depth of real-world business experience by both the full-time and adjunct faculty. They were executives of major corporations, scientists, prominent lawyers, etc. Likewise here, I have never heard anyone express the concept of capitalism in the manner you described.
George Bush, when explaining his rationale for implementing TARP said he had to use socialism to save capitalism (barf).
The DemocRATic propaganda that is passed off as education, needs to modify history in order for people to abandon their common sense and adopt their totally illogical policies. In the end, their policies are designed to create a loyal, permanent support base of misinformed (brainwashed) voters who depend on their leaders for sustenance.
Free and independent thinkers, armed with accurate historical information and economic facts, are the most dangerous people on earth according to our Homeland Security director and her leftist pals.
I'd have to respectfully disagree as to the vernacular meaning of "capitalism." For most people it conjures up images of Paulson's revolving door from Goldman Sachs to Treasury, funnelling untold billions in tax dollars to Citibank and to GM, Bernie Madoff and so forth. I prefer to use the terms "free enterprise" and "private property" when discussing these matters. I am in no way out to save any of the stuff I listed above, but I sure as heck am trying to same "free enterprise" and "private property."
I think it's much more effective in getting the point across to use those terms with most folks, since the term "capitalism" has all of these negative connotations. People like free enterprise and private property, but they have no use for Bernie Madoff and the bailout of the financial industry, GM, Freddie and Fannie, and so on.
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