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To: JoSixChip
I’m still skeptical this will ever see the inside of a courtroom. But if it does they are charging him with disobeying a direct order so the prosecution will have to prove it is a lawful order. That means obumber will have to be proved legit.

It doesn't work that way. They have to prove he disobeyed an order, he has to prove it was an unlawful one. It's an affirmative defense.

21 posted on 04/22/2010 3:25:42 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
They have to prove he disobeyed an order, he has to prove it was an unlawful one.

Good luck on that.

25 posted on 04/22/2010 3:30:37 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: El Gato; Non-Sequitur

I just don’t agree with ether of you. If the charge is disobeying a lawful order, they have to prove it is lawful. If LTC Lakin gets his day in court, and that is a big if, the question of obumbers eligibility will be answered.

And yes, I have participated in a court martial. Though I don’t claim to be an expert, I do know a defendant has the right to defend him/her self and the prosecution has to prove it’s case.


27 posted on 04/22/2010 3:50:10 PM PDT by JoSixChip (You think your having a bad day?.....Somewhere out there is a Mr. Pelosi!)
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To: El Gato; JoSixChip
"It doesn't work that way. They have to prove he disobeyed an order, he has to prove it was an unlawful one. It's an affirmative defense. "

Yep, that's right. Although the MCM wouldn't characterize it as "an affirmative defense", as a practical matter, that's what it is. Orders are presumed legal on their face. If a defendant believes an order to be illegal, he bears the burden of proof to demonstrate such a claim. It's then up to the trial judge to make a determination if that's factually correct.

There has been some case law developed along the lines of service members questioning the legality of certain orders with respect to either UN or Presidential authority (or lack thereof). Those cases - with Michael New v. US as the most recent - have not been well-received by SCOTUS. The trial judge(s) has ruled those kinds of questions nonjusticiable on the basis that it's a political question. I HIGHLY suspect that a challenge to this President's (or any President's) eligibility will meet the same fate, quickly.

A military judge isn't going to entertain this, and discovery won't be granted.

I feel bad for this guy. He's doing what I'm sure he believes to be the noble act, but it's futile and will probably result in his dishonorable discharge and subsequent loss of his license to practice medicine. It's tragic. Moreover, people shouldn't lose site of the fact that this officer's orders weren't signed by the President, they were probably signed by a two-star, or perhaps Gates if they're deployment orders. Not Obama.

52 posted on 04/22/2010 6:15:54 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: El Gato
It doesn't work that way. They have to prove he disobeyed an order, he has to prove it was an unlawful one. It's an affirmative defense.

No; the prosecution has to prove every element of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

In this case, the government has to prove the order was lawful. If the defendant claims that the order is unlawful because Obama is not constitutionally eligible to hold the office of President, then the government must produce the evidence that he is constitutionally qualified. The real fear should be that the judge just might take judicial notice that Obama is the legitimate President.

All in all, charges being filed is simply te next step in the process and what the defendant and his lawyers wanted to happen. FRankly, I'm a bit surprised the government acted so quickly unless those in the chain of command either want to discourage others from taking similar action or they want Obama exposed as soon as reasonably possible.

87 posted on 04/22/2010 8:16:05 PM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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