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To: faq
I realize that it probably has absolutely nothing to do with the bombing attempt, but I am REALLY curious about this "unrecorded sale", and the information that the vehicle in question had a scrap/salvage title out of TX, and why does a car that both looks fine, and apparently runs fine, have a salvage title?

I still think that there is (probably) unrelated Cash for Clunkers scam going on here.

Is it even legal to not record the sale of titled property?

6 posted on 05/03/2010 1:31:17 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: OldDeckHand

There’s a title transfer even when I donate old vehicles to St Vincent DePaul Society.


12 posted on 05/03/2010 1:34:32 PM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, democrats believe every day is April 15)
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To: OldDeckHand
...why does a car that both looks fine, and apparently runs fine, have a salvage title?

Some people buy two wrecked vehicles from insurance totaled out wrecks and rebuild one vehicle from the two carcasses...........

13 posted on 05/03/2010 1:35:02 PM PDT by Red Badger (When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you'll know that its desolation is NEAR. Luke 21)
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To: OldDeckHand
"this "unrecorded sale""

Could be a string of them. String 'em all up.

17 posted on 05/03/2010 1:36:14 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: OldDeckHand
Is it even legal to not record the sale of titled property?

In Florida, it is up to the BUYER to take the title in to the tax collector and have it registered, but there is no time limit............

18 posted on 05/03/2010 1:36:34 PM PDT by Red Badger (When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you'll know that its desolation is NEAR. Luke 21)
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To: OldDeckHand

They probably mean a “rebuilt” title.

The vehicle was totalled and bought back and put back on the road. It could have been hail damage or anything that would get to about 80% of the vehicles value, which in this case is not much.

Unrecorded is when it was sold by a private person who handed the title and vehicle over for cash.


30 posted on 05/03/2010 1:39:45 PM PDT by Clay Moore (Roaches, predators, and thieves typically work under the cover of darkness. So it is with congress.)
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To: OldDeckHand
and why does a car that both looks fine, and apparently runs fine, have a salvage title?

It doesn't take much for a car to be "totaled out" in an insurance claim if it is 10 years old.

It can still be quite drivable.

A car bomb does not need to be made for a long haul roadtrip or even to pass annual inspection. It just needs to run reliably to get to the destination.

32 posted on 05/03/2010 1:41:28 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The hysteria of Matthewsism and Andersonism has led to a Tea Party Scare that is unAmerican.)
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To: OldDeckHand
and the information that the vehicle in question had a scrap/salvage title out of TX, and why does a car that both looks fine, and apparently runs fine, have a salvage title?

I am not an expert but ...

Water damage can do it, or if air bags inflate, it may total the car due to the high expense of repair.

33 posted on 05/03/2010 1:41:28 PM PDT by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: OldDeckHand

The vehicle could have a salvage title from TX for several reasons. First, the vehicle could have flood damage from the recent hurricanes, which is why there isn’t any visible damage to the vehicle. Second, the vehicle could have been abandoned and the state issues a salvage title at auction. Third, the vehicle could have been left at a wrecker lot and the wrecker company later got a salvage title.

“Is it even legal to not record the sale of titled property?”

In TX, if the vehicle does not have a lien, the owner will hold the title. All it takes is the old owner signing the title on the back to transfer the vehicle. The new owner is also supposed to sign the title and then register it with the state. However, there is no requirement that it be registered in TX.

I sold a car once to a mexican for cash and just signed the title over, it was his responsibility to register it. I did file a liability waiver form with the state letting TX know that I did sale the vehicle, just in case the mexican did anything illegal with the vehicle. However, that liability waiver form is not required; only a good suggestion.


38 posted on 05/03/2010 1:44:04 PM PDT by TXDuke
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To: OldDeckHand
"unrecorded sale"

That raised a red flag for me too?
47 posted on 05/03/2010 1:54:08 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: OldDeckHand

In answer to your question it could have been in a flood or “totaled” out then repaired. Happens a lot.


48 posted on 05/03/2010 1:54:34 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: OldDeckHand
...why does a car that both looks fine, and apparently runs fine, have a salvage title?

Speaking as someone with over 20 years in the auto industry (manufacturer side, not dealership), I can explain part of this.

Salvage does not necessarily mean sold for scrap, but salvaged from some kind of damage, repaired and resold.

New vehicles that are damaged intransit between mfr and dealer, or between dealers, sufficiently so that they aren't pristine enough to be sold new are sent to special closed auctions where the mfr's dealers have a chance to buy them as first quality used cars.

Dealership demo vehicles may also be sent to such auctions, as would company vehicles, used vehicles being returned to dealerships off leases and which are in excellent condition, no history of accidents. Vehicles bought in these closed dealer-only auctions will wind up on a dealership's lot somewhere to be sold as a used vehicle -- pre-owned in today's parlance.

All other vehicles not sold privately are sold in open auctions. They typically include fleet vehicles, used vehicles with a damage history, trade-ins, etc. These wind up in the el cheapo types of used car lots, or in scrap yards.

If a vehicle, new or used, was damaged in, say, a flood, but was repairable, it would likely have a salvage title. If it was one that went through the lower-quality auction process, it could be purchased under a salvage title.

What troubled me more about the Nissan in this case is that the owner/former owner says he sold it without documentation. All of us who have sold cars in our lives know that, at minimum, we must document the transaction on the papers transferring title. Now maybe that happened in this case and the guy who sold it didn't keep a record for himself. The dude who bought it clearly didn't transfer title to himself. Otherwise, the VIN would have traced back to him and not the guy who says he sold the car. The seller may be totally innocent, and just a textbook example of why it's important to always keep a paper record for yourself when you sell a car privately. A short handwritten bill of sale signed by both parties is sufficient.

62 posted on 05/03/2010 2:12:54 PM PDT by Wolfstar (Note to rigid ideologues: Your own point of view in a mirror is quite a limited window on the world.)
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To: OldDeckHand

I find that strange also. Who would let a car registered in their name be driven off by a stranger? Weird. This is a perfect example, FBI knocking on your door. Like I said weird.


81 posted on 05/03/2010 4:09:14 PM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: OldDeckHand
If a car is over a certain age, it's not required that it have a title. We have bought and sold a number of cars without titles over the years.

Even without a title, a bill of sale is a good idea just to protect you from the county coming looking for a tag fee. But in the case of the county, all that's needed is an affidavit that you've sold the car. It's the buyer's responsibility to title the vehicle, not the seller's.

And if the car was sold at some earlier without a title, the owner may have only been able to GET a "scrap/salvage" title without a bill of sale or a title signed over to him. Do you know at what point in the chain the salvage title appeared?

I don't think this is necessarily some sort of scam. Naturally the perpetrator of a bombing would want a vehicle WITHOUT a paper trail, and he certainly wouldn't register it.

95 posted on 05/03/2010 4:34:19 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)T)
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