Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.
Posted on 06/02/2010 4:02:04 PM PDT by wagglebee
LMAO!
“Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you ...”
Thanks, but no thanks! No more than I love or would pray for Adolph Hitler, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy or any other clearly evil entity. May they burn in hell for eternity!
I do and will continue to pray for the end of the murder of millions of innocent babies, by whatever means necessary!
Militant
When you meet the guy I was quoting, who came up with the idea, you might want to tell him how stupid he is.
Or not.
It's up to you.
Don't be ridiculous....do you honestly believe that He would ask us to stand by passively and love the monster that is killing the most innocent of His creations?
I can forgive those who do me wrong, as much as I can pray for the misguided to be shown the right path. That is a totally different issue than the real evil that is being perpetrated through the abomination of abortion. Evil needs to be extinguished, or else it is reinforced.
So, consider this in the same context....Ecclesiastes 3:8, “A time to love, a time to hate, a time for peace, and a time for war.” Anyone who doesn't believe that this is a war between good and evil is sadly naive!
Militant
Don't even think about suggesting that I'm being ridiculous. I'm being every bit as "ridiculous" as Christ Crucified: " unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness".
do you honestly believe that He would ask us to stand by passively
Try to read what I wrote. Really. I neither said that, nor implied that. For you to suggest otherwise borders on slander.
love the monster that is killing the most innocent of His creations
Matthew 5: 43You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thy enemy. 44But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: 45That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust. 46For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this? 47And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this?
Is anyone more my enemy than an abortionist? Does Jesus leave any wiggle room there?
It is for this very reason that I pray for the conversion of the abortionists; Jesus instructs that I must love them. One definition of "love", in theology, is to desire the good of another. I this case, the good I desire for them is conversion. That so-called "monster" is, in fact, a human being, created in the image and likeness of God ... but in whom that image is grossly distorted by both original and actual sin. He is a sinner in need of a Saviour.
That is a totally different issue than the real evil that is being perpetrated through the abomination of abortion.
I agree that abortion is an abomination. So is the fornication, adultery, and (failed) contraception that leads to abortion. Is the woman who seeks abortion innocent? Are the family and "friends" who pressure her to abort, innocent? Hardly. There is abomination enough to go around.
Matthew 7 1Judge not, that you may not be judged, 2For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Are you any less a sinner in need of a saviour than the abortionist? I certainly am not. God has saved me, and continues to save me, from the perdition my sins surely merit. What, then: Am I to wish perdition on some others, or pray that they too may be saved?
I calls ‘em as I sees ‘em. The fact that you angrily and forcefully deny the assertion doesn't have the power of lessening it.
“Try to read what I wrote. Really. I neither said that, nor implied that. For you to suggest otherwise borders on slander.”
I read what you wrote, which was why I had the reaction I did. Love and pray for your enemy? Regardless of circumstances? Does that not imply inactivity and a kind of “hopey/changey” attitude as millions are being slaughtered? Slander...hardly! Maybe you meant to say something in addition to your brief sound byte that you forgot?
“Matthew 5:....”
And did Matthew say: “Love and pray for your enemy that is holding a knife to the throat of your son/daughter/wife, with imminent murder in mind.” Don't think so. Would Jesus not condone, lacking other alternatives to save your loved one, shooting first and asking questions later?
“That so-called ‘monster’ is, in fact, a human being, created in the image and likeness of God ...”
No, I take strong issue with that statement. Yes, we were formed in God's image from the time of conception, released from original sin through the sacrament of Baptism. Then, as we grow, our free will kicks in, and we make decisions that will either allow us to walk in the path of Jesus or to allow our lives to be given over to Satan. For most of us, it is somewhere in-between those polar opposites....allowing for redemption if chosen. Many, however, cross the line, and are taken over by evil. They have made the choice, and they are among the damned! There is a difference between sick behavior and evil behavior...the sick or mentally ill person often no longer has the power of choice. The evil person does, and carries on purposefully. Where you seem to have trouble is in acknowledging the existence and the power of real evil.
“I agree that abortion is an abomination. So is the fornication, adultery, and (failed) contraception that leads to abortion. Is the woman who seeks abortion innocent? Are the family and “friends” who pressure her to abort, innocent? Hardly. There is abomination enough to go around.”
A pretty simplistic argument for a smart person like you! Of course there is enough sin to go around. I don't equate fornication with murder anymore than I would equate shoplifting with child abduction. With most sin, there is the chance for absolution, for the person is capable of seeing the error of their ways and changing their lives. This is why Jesus died for us. With evil, actual evil, there is no absolution. That is why there is a hell.
“Matthew 7 1Judge not, that you may not be judged...”
Hmmmmm....I guess that's why we have Judges, eh? Are you saying that criminals and those who don't obey the laws of the land, or of God, should simply be loved and prayed for? Somehow I don't think that's what Matthew had in mind.
“Are you any less a sinner in need of a saviour than the abortionist?”
I fully acknowledge my sinfulness and the need for my Savior, Jesus Christ. That said, I would never equate my sinful condition with that of the evil inherent in choosing to be an abortionist.
By the way, you didn't state an opinion as to how Ecclesiastes 3:8 fits into the argument... Militant
There's something wrong with your vision.
The fact that you angrily
That's an opinion of yours, not a fact.
Love and pray for your enemy? Regardless of circumstances?
Yes. Can I do any less than Jesus Himself, who prayed for the men who were crucifying Him? Can I refuse to do what Jesus Himself specifically instructed us to do? Well? Can I?
The answer, of course, is yes. I can do that. But it would be wrong.
Does that not imply inactivity and a kind of “hopey/changey” attitude as millions are being slaughtered?
Absolutely, unquestionably NOT. It implies no such thing at all. On the contrary, it more than merely implies that whatever action I take, I must first seek God's Will, not my own. It also more than merely implies that my enemy's conversion is far better than his destruction.
Slander...hardly!
Slander ... exactly. But I forgive you.
I quoted Matthew 5. You are apparently capable of reading. Read it again. You tell me: Did Jesus leave you the wiggle room you appear to be seeking? Do you think loving you enemies and praying for your persecutors precludes taking direct action against them?
No, I take strong issue with that statement. Yes, we were formed in God's image from the time of conception,
And, what? Can any sin we commit erase the image of God? Obviously NOT! We cannot destroy the very nature God gave us when He created us.
For most of us, it is somewhere in-between those polar opposites...
"I thank you, Lord, that I am not like other men ..."
The evil person does, and carries on purposefully.
And is his sin so great, that he cannot be forgiven? Is his depravity so deep, that he cannot repent? Is anyone, in this life, beyond the reach of God's Grace?
Where you seem to have trouble is in acknowledging the existence and the power of real evil.
Where you seem to have trouble is in acknowledging that God is greater than any evil.
. With evil, actual evil, there is no absolution.
Utter nonsense.
That is why there is a hell.
No, Hell is for those who die unrepentant.
Hmmmmm....I guess you didn't read ALL of Matthew 7. I quoted the whole passage about judging. Read it again.
I fully acknowledge my sinfulness and the need for my Savior, Jesus Christ. That said, I would never equate my sinful condition with that of the evil inherent in choosing to be an abortionist.
Pride is rightly ranked as one of the "Seven Deadly Sins".
Ecclesiastes 3:8
Go ahead and hate the evil of abortion. Hate also, all the evil attitudes and sins which lead to it. As for the people who commit those sins, do what Jesus told you to do: love them, and pray for them, even while you work to end the sins and evils themselves.
AB, you really do a quite a good job of avoiding addressing most of my specific assertions....transparent, mind you, but a good job! You will obviously not address the issue of unforgivable evil, and so I shall press you no further.
From your postings, I believe that you’re likely a good and Godly person. A bit arrogant, but good and Godly nonetheless. Be well.
Militant
On the one hand, I thought I had addressed your key points.
On the other hand, this discussion is somewhat missing the point.
Tiller, certainly, seems not to have repented ... and I suspect his final destination is not pleasant.
However, once cannot properly discuss abortionists and abortion supporters (and how we should view them) without also inquiring into the lives of, for example, Norma McCorvey and Bernard Nathanson.
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