Posted on 08/24/2010 11:06:15 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
It’s been said before, and it will probably be said again: Ron Paul is not your typical Republican politician. Appearing on AC 360 last night, fill-in host Sanjay Gupta sought comment from the former Presidential candidate on the controversy surrounding what many are calling the “Ground Zero Mosque.” Paul made clear his frustration in blaming the whole of Islam with the acts of a small radical sect, and compared to the bombing of the Murrow building in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh.
-snip-
"Al Qaeda was responsible. Several hundred al Qaeda existed at that time. Maybe there are still several hundred more. That doesn’t mean the whole Muslim religion should be indicted. That was my complaint. McVeigh probably was a Christian, and he bombed the Oklahoma Federal building. Does that mean a Christian church can’t be built near there, and Christianity is to blame? I don’t like that broad brush. That doesn’t mean we should destroy the whole concept of the Muslim religion, if they can bring this out, whether the Mosque is stopped or not, the implication here is that Islam caused 9/11, not a narrow branch of the al Qaeda. To me, that is crucial, because it deals with our foreign policy, it deals with — even in that clip earlier on, Madeleine Albright admitted, she said, well, 500,000 people are killed so be it. If that’s what it takes. So is the Muslim have justification for their worries and concerns. "
(Excerpt) Read more at mediaite.com ...
Exactly.
It is collectivism/central control vs. individuality that is the core of just about any problem we talk about here.
Americans have always had a streak of individualism that unites us, not religion (we are of all different religions; just look at the arguing that goes on among peopel who supposedly believe in the same Christ). Faith is an individual, incredibly personal thing, and whatever the outward details, those who say they believe the same God have their own individual ways of seeing that 'same' belief--I'm not talking about following doctrine, but how they imagine, picture, think about these commonly-held beliefs.
But being American is about being an individual who doesn't want ANYONE telling you what to do.
That's as far from being a communist or fascist as you can get.
He’s a troll and lying about FOX and its “ownership”. More disinformation because News Corp bought a stake in a Saudi media company to expand their company into the middle east market.
Atheism did not cause the mass murders of the last century but Atheism removes any reason why not to do these things. If there is no God then there is no right and no wrong. Acts are justified by one’s own desires and “visions”, nothing more.
Unfortunately, Ron Paul mobilizes all the dope-smoking college kids in his district and they are completely dedicated to him and the dream he will bring dope to Texas.
Yikes.
Almost all Moslems support or condone violent jihad. Those that do not take exception to the Koran and would be considered apostates by mainstream Mohammedans.
That's not true--I can tell you right now, as an atheist--but I'm tired of endlessly debating this issue on FR with people who can't get around the simple fact that there IS no "Atheism" as a quasi-religion. An atheist decides all these things for him/herself, so your comment above not only is false, it's impossible to prove unless you ask every atheist what his or her definition of the universe is without the presence of a god. There is no single definition of atheism other than the belief that there is no god--beyond that, you're talking an endless variety of "isms" from nihilism to mysticism to agnosticism.
This is all a distraction from Ron Paul's foolishness. He may be a believer for all I know, but i don't care--i don't blame whatever church he believes in (or doesn't) for his being a moron who thinks 'they'll just like us' if we let them build this victory mosque.
I doubt Mc Vey shouted “Praise Jesus Christ” as he drove the truck to the Murrow building.
It is atheism itself that leads to totalitarianinsm, whether communism of fascism. A philosophy built on man alone as the source of all truth degrades into a strong man order. There is no other option. That is the seed of despotism.
...they have just as strong of a moral compass as we do.
It is impossible for a faith in oneself to be as strong as a faith in God. Individual atheists is not the same as a society of atheists. When the common weal is predicated upon the belief that a superman is possible the foundation for despotism has been laid.
As a strict Constitutionalists, Paul should ask “Should we blame strict Constitutionalism for the OKC Building bombing?”.
McVeigh was upset at the loss of rights for the Branch Davidians.
Paul has aligned himself with Islam because of other issues.
I understand what you're saying. There are PLENTY of atheists that don't want anything controlling their lives - either religion or a large, bureaucratic federal government.
I think the point some are making - or at least the point that I'll make - is that in the 20th Century, there have been several totalitarian states that looked at organized religion, or faith of any kind, as a threat. So, they developed an open hostility to people of faith - the totalitarians didn't want anything coming between the state and its people. I think some people mistake this dynamic as a "totalitarianism is the natural end-game of atheism".
I don't, but I understand how some could reach that conclusion.
The logic of the Ron Paul analogy is that Timothy McVeigh was not a leader of the Christian Church or any other church. I don’t even know if he was a member of any church.
I’m sick to death of people trying to claim that the opposition to the Mosque is Islamophobic or a violation of freedom of religion. It has little to do with the freedom to worship. If the left and the NY regulators were so concerned with the freedom of religion, they would have allowed the Greek Orthodox congregation to rebuild their facility, if not in the original location, in the secondary location in the architectural style that is their tradition. They didn’t do that, so freedom of religion is not the point here, either.
Conservatives need to be very careful with libertarians. Their agreement on issues of taxation and limited government is overshadowed by their open hostility to the Christian heritage of this Nation.
Good points.
Those of us with jobs with benefits--or even who've enjoyed Hollywood movies from the 30's-60's--have benefitted from labor organization and the efforts of outright communists. Should we go to our bosses and say we don't want those benefits that came from collective bargaining back in the day (a day that's long gone) because communists were behind the labor movement, or claim that communism is a good thing because of the ways we've benefitted? Are WE supporters of communism because we take the benefits from these changes (and pay to see these movies)?
Certainly not.
Similarly, the situation you've described isn't due to atheist beliefs. It's too complicated for some folks, I guess.
If McVeigh was not an islamist, he sure was an accomplice.
I don't think anyone who has a complete and accurate understanding of the phrase "secular humanist" could describe either Communist China, Communist Vietnam the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany as secular humanist states. They weren't.
You would be hard pressed to find a country more secular than Sweden. Religion is completely absent from its politics, and virtually absent from everyday life. It is for all practical purposes, a country comprised almost entirely of atheists or agnostics. But, in the last 200 years, I don't think you can point to a time when the Swedish people invaded anyone, or committed any atrocity of any kind.
Totalitarianism isn't the result of Atheism. Atheism is the forced by-product of totalitarianism. As I said, dictators don't want anything coming between them and their "subjects".
Wow, I hadn’t put it together either. Thanks for posting.
His dementia is showing. He claimed that Nancy Pelosi called for an investigation into the Mosque funding:
“The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam. “
Perhaps we can hope he has a lucid moment, but I doubt it.
Agreed. I wonder how his son feels about now. :-)
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