Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Red China: Chinese think tank warns US it will emerge as loser in trade war
The Telegraph ^ | 9/14/2010 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 09/14/2010 1:44:53 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

A State Council think-tank in China has warned Washington that the US will come off worst in a trade war if it imposes sanctions against Beijing over the two nations' currency spat.

Ding Yifan, a policy guru at the Development Research Centre, said China could respond by selling holdings of US debt, estimated at over $1.5 trillion (£963bn). This would trigger a rise in US interest rates. His comments at a forum in Beijing follow a string of remarks by Chinese officials questioning US credit-worthiness and the reliability of the dollar.

China's authorities seem split over how to respond to moves on Capitol Hill for legislation to punish Beijing for holding down the yuan. The central bank has ruled out use of its "nuclear weapon", insisting that it would not exploit its $2.45 trillion of foreign reserves for political purposes. "The US Treasury market is a very important market for China," it said.

However, the mood is hardening on both sides of the Pacific. The dispute risks escalating if China's trade surplus with the US climbs further and more US jobs are lost. US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, who has taken a softly-softly line in the past, said on Friday that China had done "very little" to correct the undervaluation of the yuan since ending the dollar peg in June.

Mr Ding reflects thinking among some in the Poltiburo, who seem convinced that the US is in decline and that China's rise as an exporter of goods and capital give it the upper hand.

"They are utterly wrong," said Gabriel Stein from Lombard Street Research. "The lesson of the 1930s is that surplus countries with structurally weak domestic demand come off worst in a trade war."

He described the implicit threat to sell Treasuries as "empty

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; goldbugs; mao; maozedong; marxwouldbeproud; obamao
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-127 next last

1 posted on 09/14/2010 1:44:55 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot; Mase; expat_panama

ping


2 posted on 09/14/2010 1:51:41 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
We don't need sanctions. All we need is to do is answer what's more expensive.

1. Shipping jobs overseas, paying for unemployment benefits, and losing the revenues paid when the unemployed were tax payers, or

2. Paying $0.50 more for a US made pen instead of a foreign made pen.

3 posted on 09/14/2010 1:52:14 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

China holds our debt. China has excess capital to buy from other trading partners.

China has a government that is much more unified than our own. The Chinese are all pulling in the same direction, more or less. The US has a political class that is in it for themselves. In fact, many in the US government have been bought by the Chinese. The Chinese have more to say about US political moves than the average American.

The Chinese standard of living is low, and the people are used to dealing with whatever the goverment hands them.

The US standard of living is relatively high, even though it’s on the decline. People in the US feel entitled. A trade war that crashed the economy would cause widespread panic.

It sort of seems to me that the Chinese, if they were willing to deal with the worldwide economic mess, could crush the US.


4 posted on 09/14/2010 1:54:15 PM PDT by brownsfan (D - swift death of the republic, R - lingering death for the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

The think tank is shallow.


5 posted on 09/14/2010 1:54:17 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

Saddly, most Americans don’t think that deeply, and Walmart does not have a lot of American made goods. I say, bring on the Trade War.


6 posted on 09/14/2010 1:55:44 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
2. Paying $0.50 more for a US made pen instead of a foreign made pen.

If you want to cut the tax rate on the US based pen maker to 0%, I'd be all for it. Giving the government more control over trade, not so much.

7 posted on 09/14/2010 1:56:04 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colvin
Walmart does not have a lot of American made goods.

How much do they have, as a percentage of sales?

8 posted on 09/14/2010 1:57:04 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
China's authorities seem split over how to respond to moves on Capitol Hill for legislation to punish Beijing for holding down the yuan. The central bank has ruled out use of its "nuclear weapon", insisting that it would not exploit its $2.45 trillion of foreign reserves for political purposes.

But it sure makes a good club to hold over our government's head to ensure that our government jumps everytime China yells, "frog".

9 posted on 09/14/2010 1:57:44 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (Contrary to popular belief, America is separated by class.... the political class and all others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
Mr. Ding is right as long as Obama is occupying the White House. Obama will do whatever is most damaging to the US.
10 posted on 09/14/2010 2:00:30 PM PDT by Truth29
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OB1kNOb
But it sure makes a good club to hold over our government's head to ensure that our government jumps everytime China yells, "frog".

What else is China going to do with all those dollars they earn from the massive current account deficit they have with us?

Nuclear weapon?

LOL!

11 posted on 09/14/2010 2:06:53 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
If you want to cut the tax rate on the US based pen maker to 0%, I'd be all for it.

Me too, but I don't need a $0.50 price cut or any other kind of government intervention to know I'd be saving money over the long haul by buying the US made pen.

12 posted on 09/14/2010 2:07:01 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Truth29

Mr. Ding is right as long as Obama is occupying the White House. Obama will do whatever is most damaging to the US.


0bama might sell our Pacific Fleet, including all of our Nimitz Class Aircraft Carriers to the Chinese. /No sarcasm.


13 posted on 09/14/2010 2:09:25 PM PDT by unkus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
1. Shipping jobs overseas, paying for unemployment benefits, and losing the revenues paid when the unemployed were tax payers, or

2. Paying $0.50 more for a US made pen instead of a foreign made pen, [and]

3. Shipping jobs overseas, paying more for unemployment benefits, and losing the revenues paid when the unemployed were tax payers because we made pens more expensive.

Who has any faith the government will sort things out?
14 posted on 09/14/2010 2:10:05 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colvin
I say, bring on the Trade War.

Absolutely. Higher prices, fewer jobs and a more influential government!!

It's the American way.

15 posted on 09/14/2010 2:14:20 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mase
Folks will be screaming like, well, Democrats if the jobs are lost in their Congressional District. If it happens to someone elsewhere, not so much.
16 posted on 09/14/2010 2:17:30 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

Lets see a few billion people pissed at their leader, how long before he’s dead meat.


17 posted on 09/14/2010 2:18:16 PM PDT by org.whodat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colvin
I would say that the only American made product is in the grocery department and dog and cat food. But they were importing the hell out of dog and cat food until it started killing peoples pets. LOL
18 posted on 09/14/2010 2:20:43 PM PDT by org.whodat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat

I’m looking at a “Grown in U.S.A.” label on the tomatoes I purchased just today. But of course, they could have been assembled from foreign parts.


19 posted on 09/14/2010 2:24:14 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman

The Free Trader Globalists will side with the Communist Chinese on this one...sure bet.


20 posted on 09/14/2010 2:24:29 PM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (They don't let you build churches in Mecca)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: UCFRoadWarrior

When you find one, let us “Free Trader Globalists” know . . . I’d like to have some words with him or her.


21 posted on 09/14/2010 2:25:49 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy; bruinbirdman; Mase; expat_panama

The money that is sold abroad is YOU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd-SLRyuRq0&feature=player_embedded#!


22 posted on 09/14/2010 2:26:58 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: wolfcreek

Our government spends too much money? Even more than it takes in? What a shock. How has this secret been kept for so long?


23 posted on 09/14/2010 2:31:25 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

The popular term would be *non-sustainable*.


24 posted on 09/14/2010 2:34:04 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
to know I'd be saving money over the long haul by buying the US made pen.

Always buying the more expensive product is your recommendation for saving money?

25 posted on 09/14/2010 3:16:39 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
to know I'd be saving money over the long haul by buying the US made pen.

Always buying the more expensive product is your recommendation for saving money?

26 posted on 09/14/2010 3:16:42 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I do think they were in the grocery department, like I said, but the rest of the store is 99.99% Chinese junk.
27 posted on 09/14/2010 3:21:15 PM PDT by org.whodat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat

99.99%? Are you sure it wasn’t 99.9999%? (As long as you’re being ‘scientific’ about it).


28 posted on 09/14/2010 3:23:18 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
Always buying the more expensive product is your recommendation for saving money?

Yes, if it means less of my money to pay for someone else's unemployment benefits, and even less because there are more employed people carrying the load.

And yes, if it means my job won't be shipped overseas so I'll have a paycheck to buy those more expensive US made pens with.

29 posted on 09/14/2010 3:40:34 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
Yes, if it means less of my money to pay for someone else's unemployment benefits

What if we only used US produced oil? Current production is about one-third of our usage. Our costs would skyrocket.

Would that be helpful for American workers?

and even less because there are more employed people carrying the load.

I'm sure the number of US oil workers would increase quickly, do you think that would offset the massive job losses in all the other sectors of the economy?

30 posted on 09/14/2010 3:48:13 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
Yes, if it means less of my money to pay for someone else's unemployment benefits, and even less because there are more employed people carrying the load.

Except for the fact that you will probably be spending 50 cents to save 25 cents, you might have a point.

31 posted on 09/14/2010 3:51:14 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: bruinbirdman
This is what the Chinese communists need to understand:

1. We do not have to pay the debt they hold in our treasury if we decide so because they have no way to force us to pay it and that is why we are called a Super Power in fact the only Super Power in the world.

2. We can stop importing their products and tens of millions of them will die from starvation and they will have a revolution that will topple the evil communist regime.

3. The Chinese communists can go to hell. They are a murderous evil regime that enslaves 1.2 billions of its own people.

32 posted on 09/14/2010 3:58:18 PM PDT by jveritas (God bless our brave troops)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colvin

Sadly there are a lot of armchair economists who think we should destroy the American economy and standard of living by returning it to the start of the Industrial Revolution.

America is the king of the information economy - we need to capitalize and consolidate on the future, not the past.


33 posted on 09/14/2010 4:06:09 PM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
What if we only used US produced oil?

Interesting that you focused on one industry, when there are plenty of others. Besides, from what I've seen most Freepers wish we WOULD drill here.

Our costs would skyrocket.

Assuming that's correct over the long haul, those costs would go back into OUR economy, not out of the country.

I guess now it as good a time as any to say this, but I'm all for energy independence and developing green, renewable energy sources, but I don't go for the dishonest scare tactics the left uses.

Would that be helpful for American workers?

And how did shipping our jobs overseas help American workers. Are those Americans who would be working at those factories that were closed better off collecting unemployment? What about the call centers that were shipped overseas? Are the Americans who lost those jobs better off, and are you satisfied with the service you get from those foreign call centers?

It's easy to talk about the cost of making things here, but you're not feeling the costs of shipping our jobs overseas yet, because we're borrowing foreign dollars to pay for all of those unemployment benefits. When the bill comes, you'll see how cheap those foreign made pens really are.

I'm sure the number of US oil workers would increase quickly, do you think that would offset the massive job losses in all the other sectors of the economy?

To be honest, I don't know what the cost would be. I leave this question for the "drill here" supporters to answer.

34 posted on 09/14/2010 4:09:53 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
Except for the fact that you will probably be spending 50 cents to save 25 cents, you might have a point.

You'll find out how much that cheaper foreign made lamp really costs when we start paying back all the money we borrowed to pay for those unemployment benefits.

35 posted on 09/14/2010 4:12:29 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: gura
That's not the problem, really. I jumped from the #4 (at the time, in terms of market share) steel fab company to the #1 steel fab company in the United States, back in the day . . . and the plant I moved to (the company had more than 1, obviously) produced more product with 1/3 of the workers than the plant I left. And the workers at the plant I moved to were Teamsters, while the ones I left were non-union.

I'd go drinking with (whatever shift it was) them after work, and their clothes were as clean as mine . . . this whole idea that the U.S. needs to return to the glory days of the Henry Ford empire (and dirty workers) is a pipe-dream. There are workers who get dirty, still, but not in all manufacturing plants.

36 posted on 09/14/2010 4:22:23 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
You'll find out how much that cheaper foreign made lamp really costs when we start paying back all the money we borrowed to pay for those unemployment benefits.

And you'll find out the idiocy of it all when you realize that you spent $100K to "save" a $50K job.

37 posted on 09/14/2010 4:24:12 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
And you'll find out the idiocy of it all when you realize that you spent $100K to "save" a $50K job.

By spending $0.50 more for a US made notepad? I'm willing to make that sacrifice to keep jobs over here.

38 posted on 09/14/2010 4:30:54 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

You’ve got it all wrong...we need to return to those glory days when 80% of the workforce was in agriculture. There is absolutely no reason why 2% today should do the work of 80% of yesteryear. Taking a bath once a week was pretty cool, too.


39 posted on 09/14/2010 4:37:43 PM PDT by 10Ring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
Naturally, because it's just you spending the extra 50 cents, not anyone else. And 50 cents sounds cheap (for a pen). Tell me, how many more 50 cent additions to your discretionary spending budget can I add until you start to squeal?
40 posted on 09/14/2010 4:37:58 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
Interesting that you focused on one industry, when there are plenty of others.

Pick another one. What if we only used more expensive steel? Just benefits, no losses?

Besides, from what I've seen most Freepers wish we WOULD drill here.

By all means, we should. Our oil would still be more expensive if we excluded all imports.

Assuming that's correct over the long haul, those costs would go back into OUR economy, not out of the country.

The millions of unemployed, because oil tripled (or more) in price won't be thrilled with your idea.

And how did shipping our jobs overseas help American workers.

I already said I'd like business taxes to be cut, to 0% in a perfect world.

I leave this question for the "drill here" supporters to answer.

I'm sure the drill here supporters don't agree with your idea to just use much more expensive US oil exclusively.

41 posted on 09/14/2010 4:39:11 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: 10Ring
That whole Teamster concept really steamed me . . . those guys made more money, didn't have to dryclean or starch their shirts, didn't have to wear a tie, could call-off when they were hungover (if they had the "points" to burn), and worked fewer hours than I.

That, and if they didn't like you (not in my case) they'd throw nuts and bolts at you when you weren't looking . . . and don't get me started on my asshat boss who wanted me to cross their picket line when they went on strike.

42 posted on 09/14/2010 4:44:30 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
What if we only used more expensive steel? Just benefits, no losses?

We're using more and more cheaper foreign steel and closing American mills. The readers of this thread can judge for themselves how that has worked out.

The millions of unemployed, because oil tripled (or more) in price won't be thrilled with your idea.

My idea is to develop renewable energy. I agree that it's not feasible on a large scale at present (IOW, I'm not a greenie), but the technology will get better in time.

I already said I'd like business taxes to be cut, to 0% in a perfect world.

And I agreed.

43 posted on 09/14/2010 4:51:01 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
Tell me, how many more 50 cent additions to your discretionary spending budget can I add until you start to squeal?

When that happens, you'll be the first to know.

44 posted on 09/14/2010 4:52:14 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

In other words, you can’t answer . . . and you clearly feel more comfortable spending money that does not belong to you.


45 posted on 09/14/2010 4:53:51 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

I can see that my willingness to buy American really offends you. Tell you what, after I let you know when I start to squeal, I’ll include an apology for this offense.


46 posted on 09/14/2010 4:56:31 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty
Speaking of steel, this just in today:

Although Nucor has said it prefers Louisiana over a competing site in Brazil, CEO Dan DiMicco has said the company is waiting on possible global warming legislation in Congress, including a cap-and-trade system on emissions. DiMicco said in May that cap-and-trade would make the Louisiana site economically impossible.
Nucor: Steel business is slowing, profit falling, September 14, 2010.

How's that working out for us? Surely we can spend 50 cents more for steel in order to save our environment.
47 posted on 09/14/2010 5:00:25 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I already answered that. I support developing renewable energy, but I don't support the dishonest way this agenda is being pushed by the left.

And I don't support the government forcing it on us over this bogus global warming/climate change "science".

48 posted on 09/14/2010 5:05:21 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

Yes, and you appear to be unaware of the Law of Unintended Consequences. Are you willing to admit that making U.S. products more expensive has a consequence, or not?


49 posted on 09/14/2010 5:06:57 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I just agreed with you about government over-regulation (interference) over this global warming "science". How many times do I need to say it?

Now let me ask you something. How do you feel about all of this technology being exported to China so that you can buy a computer for less?

50 posted on 09/14/2010 5:13:23 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-127 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson