Posted on 10/08/2010 12:47:30 PM PDT by TheDon
The Mormon church is being targeted because they gave more money than any other religious organization to get Prop 8 passed.
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And what was the reason the mormons were “targetted” 150 years ago ???
The mormons have been playing the victim card since 1830...
Always “attacked” for their “virtue”
BTW which religious organization gave the most to the McCain/Palin campaign that same year, 2008 ???
nor did God urge that the death penalty be given to polygamists.
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And yet there is no Commandment among the 10 against homosexuality but there is against agultery (polygamy)
You dont think God saying that adulterers (polygamists) will be left OUTSIDE of Heaven is a bad thing ???
Lets see what God has to say...
You ready ???
Here we go...
“’If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. Leviticus 20:10
But now I see that the prophets of Jerusalem are even worse! They commit adultery and love dishonesty. They encourage those who are doing evil so that no one turns away from their sins. These prophets are as wicked as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah once were.” Jeremiah 23:14
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. Matthew 15:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galations 5:21
So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive strangers of justice, but do not fear me,” says the LORD Almighty. Malachi 3:5
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 1 Corinthinians 6:9
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Hebrews 13:4
Murderers! Idolaters! Adulterers! Should the land belong to you?’ Ezekiel 33:26
Hey faggots! To quote lady gag gag, if you don’t like it then leave!
Yet God ordained man (through the civil magistrate) as His represenative of punishment here on earth (while there have been extremely harsh penalties against homosexuality here in the US (and in other civilized countries), you can't say the same for polygamy).
Technically, polygamy isn't adultery, because there isn't an act of out of wedlock sex.
Adultery (according to Dictionary.com): "voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.
Yeah, I suppose since homosexuals can't marry, it would be pretty hard to accuse them of having adultery with any of the hundreds of anonymous sexual partners they have annually, huh?
Let's go back to your "But but but all sins are equal in the eyes of God" ploy.
While I don't think God would put the little 5 year old girl that lied to her mother about stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar on the same plain as a homosexual that has had 500 anonymous sex partners, and has AIDS and spread it to a 12 year old boy that he seduced, perhaps I'm wrong.
The key is is UNREPENTANT SINNERS. I can't think of any sin that is as well organized, well financed, and as PROUD as the homosexual movement, including those that identify with that movement.
On that note, the attached link describes how God's wrath deals with sin. Play close attention to #5.
Question
Does God consider the sin of homosexuality to be worse than the sin of fornication among heterosexuals?
Answer
Categorically, no, and I will tell you why. Because when you have any listing of sins in the Scripture, for example, in 1 Corinthians, chapter 6, he says, in verse 9, "Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God" [1 Corinthians 6:9-10]. Categorically, you have got everything in the same list. Probably when you compare sodomites to homosexuals, some would say that homosexuals could refer to what were called Catomites, those who submitted to homosexuals, maybe the younger boy who submits to the pedophile--that kind of thing, so you have two different terms used for homosexual activity. Some would even use those words to refer to people like transvestites or what they are called today "transgender" people. But when you look at a list like that you see that they are all outside the kingdom. So categorically they are all in the same situation--they are defined by their sin. Verse 11, then says, "and such were some of you," so, the point being, that those are all sins that are characteristic of people outside the kingdom, but they are all forgivable--right?--because, "such were some of you." He's saying to the Corinthian church, "you know, that list is a list of what you used to be and some of you were here, and some of you were here, and some of you were here, and so forth." So, if it is true that that sin along with many others defines life outside the kingdom, but that that sin is forgivable, then in that sense it is no worse a sin than any other.
Having said that, I would say, however, that when you look at Romans, chapter one, and you have to look at Romans, chapter one to understand this: When "the wrath of God (in verse 18) is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness..." The "wrath of God" follows a sequence. In Romans, chapter one, you look first of all at verse 24, and here is the defining of God's wrath--let me kind of sum this up for you. You read Romans 1:18 about "the wrath of God" and we say, "Ok, 'the wrath of God,' what are you talking about? Well, there are five kinds of wrath:
1. There is Eternal Wrath - That's Hell.
2. There is, I guess what we could call, Eschatological Wrath, or the wrath of the last days. The wrath described in Revelation 6-19, all the Seal Judgments, Trumpet Judgments, Bowl Judgments--the final wrath. So there is Eternal Wrath, there is Eschatological Wrath.
3. There is also, what I could call, Cataclysmic Wrath: the flood; the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; the destruction of the cities of the plain; the destruction of Capernaum; the judgment of God on Korazin, Bethsaida--and in history God has judged whole civilizations through cataclysms that took unbelieving people and catapulted them into eternity, such as Pompeii, which was a city literally notorious for its vice. So you have Eternal Wrath, you have Eschatological Wrath, you have Cataclysmic Wrath.
4. Then you have, what I would call, Natural Wrath. That is the wrath of God that comes in a sowing and reaping fashion. If you are a drunkard all your life, you may die of cirrhosis of the liver; if you live in sexual sin all your life you may shorten your life and die of some venereal disease including AIDS. So there are certain things built-in, "Whatever a man sows he reaps," that's another kind of wrath. But the wrath being spoken of here is the fifth kind.
5. It is the Wrath of Abandonment. It is that judicial act of God whereby He lets the sinner go. In other words, He stops convicting, He stops calling, it's Genesis six, where God says, "My Spirit will not always strive with man." There comes a point when God says, "That's it--I'm letting you go." And when God lets a society go, verse 24 says, "He gives them over to uncleanness"--that's sexual sin. Then verse 26, "He gives them up to vile passions, and women exchange the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful." So you have lesbianism and homosexuality. When God gives a society up they plunge into sexual sin and then they sink deeper into homosexual sin.
So while homosexuality is a forgivable sin, and categorically no worse than others, when it happens on a societal level, it is evidence that when a society affirms it, when it becomes normal in a society, that is evidence that God has turned that society over. If you look at America you can look back to the sexual revolution of the 60's, which has now become a homosexual revolution of the 90's in which the homosexuals have redefined themselves as a minority, like a racial group of people demanding rights. So I think as far as individual sin goes no more damning than the other sin and as forgivable as any other sin. When it becomes the pattern of a society it is evidence that God has turned that society over to that sin, it may be at that point an evidence that many in that society are not redeemable because they have gone past the "age of grace." In response to that, we hate the sin of homosexuality because of its baseness and because of its perverseness, but at the same time we understand that it is a sin like any other sin and we have to call that sinner to repentance and offer that individual sinner the grace and the forgiveness of God. We can't play God and while God may be turning our society over--God may be no longer striving with us; He may have abandoned us as a society, still He is saving individuals who respond to the gospel.
Link to Are some sins worse than others?
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Whatever floats your boat. Really? Seriously?
It's all over the place. You just have to look. Let me save you the trouble.
“We raise an alarm and warn members of the Church to wake up and understand what is going on. Parents, be alert, ever watchful that this wickedness might threaten your family circle. We teach a standard of moral conduct that will protect us from Satan’s many substitutes or counterfeits for marriage. We must understand that any persuasion to enter into any relationship that is not in harmony with the principles of the gospel must be wrong. From the Book of Mormon we learn that “wickedness never was happiness.” Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn temptations toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Remember, God is our Heavenly Father. Paul promised that “God . . . will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”
... if we are not alert, there are those today who not only tolerate but advocate voting to change laws that would legalize immorality, as if a vote would somehow alter the designs of God’s laws and nature. A law against nature would be impossible to enforce. For instance, what good would a vote against the law of gravity do? There are both moral and physical laws “irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world” that cannot be changed.
History demonstrates over and over again that moral standards cannot be changed by battle and cannot be changed by ballot. To legalize that which is basically wrong or evil will not prevent the pain and penalties that will follow as surely as night follows day. Regardless of the opposition, we are determined to stay on course. We will hold to the principles and laws and ordinances of the gospel. If they are misunderstood either innocently or willfully, so be it. We cannot change; we will not change the moral standard. We quickly lose our way when we disobey the laws of God. If we do not protect and foster the family, civilization and our liberties must needs perish.
http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-1298-23,00.html
Rip I mean the original transcript of what Packer actually said,
Not the sanitized version...
From the Book of Mormon we learn that “wickedness never was happiness.”
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And yet the same guy, Joey Smith, who wrote the book of mormon also wrote D&C 132 in which he demanded his so called mormon god given “right” to do the wickedness of adultery wholesale with many different women and if his legal wife Emma objected he threatened her with physical abuse and death...
Some “virtueous” tenets the mormons have...
Can you say “hypocrites” yet ???
BTW Joey Smith was right ..”wickedness never was happiness.”
Joey Sm,ith came to an unhappy end for his wickedness,
While Emma who didnt commit adultery lived a long life...
and was able to escape from mormonism and Brigham Youngs plots to kill her...
(But thats another part of the story)
His original remarks are still available on the same page as his text.
Windows Media, Quicktime and MP3. Take your pick. Sunday Morning session.
http://lds.org/conference/sessions/display/0,5239,23-1-1298,00.html
President Packer changed very little in his review and publication of the transcript.
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Thank you for being honest and admitting something was changed...
Now why would that be ???
Will you answer for the lurkers ???
Wow. You really need to get out once in a while.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=12749665
See ya.
It is being reported that the LDS church has modified the online version of the speech.
Where is the truth. Not in SLC that’s for sure. I would have so much more respect if they just stuck with what they believe, without the spin.
100% right? Which version of the speech is 100% right? Was it the first version that Packer actually spoke or the cleansed online version?
The change is very minimal. The meaning is the same. The gay community is still not happy.
Have you read it? It’s on this thread, as is the original video.
BTW, the “online” version includes the original video of the speech. It’s still there, video and audio. The original talks are all available, and always are available.
You can see it and or listen to it and all talks at GC in several places. Here’s another, besides what has been already posted.
http://new.lds.org/general-conference?lang=eng
That any changes are needed is problematic and only loads the fodder into the queer gun. I am sure he was feeling good and among friends only to realize the next day that some of the world didn’t like the remarks.
I find it weird that they put so much effort into banning gay marriage. If gay marriage were law then polygamy would be an easy sell. It is almost compensation for LDS practices in a “doth protest too much” kind of way.
Personally the LDS church is as creepy as anything I have ever experienced. I try to be objective but sometimes my feelings get the better of me.
President Packer has always been bold in his statements. He’s been dissed on this site before by evangelicals for his strong language against pornography and masturbation. He will always be vilified by those who enjoy sin.
He’s an old man, and his own edits after he delivered his address from a chair, for lack of strength to stand up, didn’t change the meaning of his talk, even the gay community agrees.
Not sure why you see this a any problem at all.
Guessing 90% of the males in this group of pervs are also gay pedophiles. The worst of the worst White Trash.
I have read the talk and listened to talk; it is hatred and narrowminded opinion. I can’t tell you how many Mormon families (aka a family faith) that are torn apart because their children are homosexual.
I personally don’t care about someone’s sexuality. It is who they are; I care about what they do and how they impact liberty of the greater whole.
It is my liberterian streak coming out, but Mormons believe in some wacky stuff, but I believe that we shall not judge; that is not our place.
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