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To: rmlew
A sustained 9g+ turn does not really gain you any advantage anymore.

I think they have the right idea with the F-35. A hard jink plus its stealth capabilities will break the lock long enough for it to do its work. And with its integrated sensor/missile capability it can toss a missile in any direction so fast it will make their heads spin. Its internal payload capabilities are way more than the F-22, dont even mention external. And it has the most powerful engine of that type ever developed.

I don't understand the cultural bias against the F-35 here, guess I better pick up my Sarah Palin banner also.

22 posted on 10/26/2010 7:25:06 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: valkyry1; rmlew
I don't understand the cultural bias against the F-35 here, guess I better pick up my Sarah Palin banner also.

No need to pick your Ms Palin banner sir. It's easy to see why the F-35 makes some feel uneasy. The issue stems from what the JSF concept, which spawned the X-35 and X-32, which led to the F-35 once the competitive dust settled, was quite different in use and concept from what the F-35 will be used for. The JSF was supposed to supplement the ATF (which the F-22 had won many many years earlier), with the F-22 supposed to knock down the door and lob off the heads of any cogent adversary, after which the F-35 would be a capable workhorse to smash any roaches still scurrying about.

The problem is the number of F-22s have been cut to less than a quarter of the original target, and more than that, the F-35 has been given a starting role. Now, that is all well and good, particularly if the US continues to fight against its usual set of foes (eg Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, Grenada, Panama, bombing of Tripoli Libya). However, should the US find itself against a near-peer adversary (what another FReeper called a real war instead of an aerial shooting demonstration), then the JSF will (guaranteed) lead to the death of US airmen, sailors and army (since the army needs US air dominance to operate safely) than if a more capable airframe was used. For instance, you mention maneuverability is no longer important - after all we are in the age of sensor fusion and super agile missiles coupled to helmet mounted sensors. The problem is that near-peer potential enemies either have the same or are about to. Some nations like Russia and India will soon have supercruising airframes with an element of stealth. Several nations have or are working on BVRAAMs that have exceptional range and terminal maneuverability (eg using ramjets like the Meteor). The F-35 is a great airplane, but even its stealth is significantly limited ...non existent in the rear hemisphere and certain angles, and only optimized against X band radar. Quite unlike the Raptor. In a conflagration involving a near-peer adversary (eg China), you can be assured that (say USN F-35Cs) will be running into a gauntlet of double-digit SAMs (eg S300 derivatives, the HQ-9, etc ....or even, in a bad case scenario, maybe the S400 ....Russiais working on a S500). These are connected to advanced IADS that are quite different from the Kari defense network used in Iraq that many like to gloat on how quickly it was destroyed (funny because Kari was a mishmash of French, UK and Soviet hardware that was supposed to stop a limited Iranian and/or Israeli attack, particularly after Osirak. How was it supposed to withstand the combined might of 4000 US, NATO and Allied airmight? Don't get me started on the F-15's unbeaten record against monkey model Soviet junk without BVR missiles, trained pilots, situational awareness, or even radar warning receivers. The SU-27 variants flown by the Russians would have the same unbeaten streak if they were flying against the Kenyan airforce's Northrop F-5s and BAE Hawks, with similar lack of awareness, BVR missiles, etc. An unbeaten record it is, and for sure the F-15 is a superlative aircraft that is very good, but late model F-4 Phantoms from the 80s and late model F-8s with evolved Sparrows would have had the same victory record against Iraq and in Kosovo).

Anyways, the problem with the F-35 is not that it is a bad plane. It is that it is a good plane that will end up doing a role it was not meant to. It was supposed to play second fiddle to the Raptor. Due to cuts under the Bush and Obama administrations, it will step up first in many cases. Which is ok if we want to pound Benin or teach somw Haitian despot a lesson. However, as China develops, the F-35 may find itself facing off against deeper and deeper L and S band IADS and hoping its limited X band stealthiness in the front hemisphere and limited kinematics may work. They may.

24 posted on 10/27/2010 4:27:31 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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