Posted on 10/30/2010 10:19:58 PM PDT by blam
Gold Never Has Been (And Never Will Be) In A Bubble
By Nathan Lewis
10/30/10 Binghamton, New York – Most serious gold investors follow a basic principle: that gold is stable in value. Changes in the “gold price” represent changes in the currency being compared to gold, while gold itself is essentially inert.
This is why gold was used as a monetary foundation for literally thousands of years. You want money to be stable in value. The simplest way to accomplish this was to link it to gold. Today, we summarize this quality by saying that “gold is money.”
From this we can see immediately, that if gold doesn’t change in value – at least not very much – then it can never be in a “bubble.” There may be a time when many people are desperate to trade their paper money for gold, but that is because their paper money is collapsing in value. It has nothing to do with gold.
Let’s take a look at some of the great gold bull markets of the last hundred years:
* From 1920 to 1923, the price of gold in German marks rose from 160/oz. to 48 trillion/oz.
* From 1945 to 1950, the price of gold in Japanese yen rose from 140/oz. to 12,600/oz.
* From 1948 to 1967, the price of gold in Brazilian cruzeiros went from 648/oz. to 94,500/oz.
* From 1970 to 1980, the price of gold in US dollars went from 35/oz. to 850/oz.
* From 1982 to 1990, the price of gold in Mexican pesos went from 8,000/oz. to 1,025,000/oz.
* From 1989 to 2000, the price of gold in Russian rubles went from 1,600/oz. to 8,120,000/oz.
Each of these situations was an episode of paper currency depreciation. Today is no different. The rising dollar/euro/yen gold price is simply a reflection of the Keynesian “easy money” policies popular around the world today.
We can also see that, if gold remains stable in value, then the supply/demand considerations that affect industrial commodities do not affect gold, which is a monetary commodity. This is why gold is used as money. If its value was affected by industrial supply/demand factors, we would not be able to use it as money.
Thus, “jewelry demand” or “peak gold,” or any other such factor, has little meaningful effect on gold’s value. Day-to-day money flows will affect the price at which currencies trade vs. gold, but this ultimately affects the currency in question, not gold.
None of these historical “gold bull markets” resulted from jewelry demand or mining supply.
Any attempt to attach a valuation to gold is mostly a waste of time. Concepts like the “inflation-adjusted gold price” or the “gold/oil ratio,” or a ratio of outstanding debt or currency to a quantity of gold bullion, are a distraction. An item that doesn’t change value is never cheap or dear. That’s what “gold is money” means.
The “price of gold” may reach five thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand, a million, or a billion dollars per ounce. The gold bubble-callers will be frothing at the mouth, until they finally have the realization that there was never a bubble in gold, but only a crash in paper money.
Gold is money. Always has been. Probably always will be. This time it’s different? I don’t think so.
Should be such a simple concept. Not for most though.
Rubbish.
Explain, then, the collapse of gold prices following the 1980 or so peak. It could be had for around $250.00/oz in 2000, I believe. Was this deflation? No, it wasn’t. It was a combination of loss of demand, due to economic fears easing, and increase in supply due to central banks selling.
Gold is a traditional safe haven in times of economic trouble. We’re in a time of economic trouble. Such times do not last forever, and neither does an elevated price for gold. It’s not a good longterm holding.
Cherry-pick the window in time to demonstrate how poor of an investment gold is, like certain fans of Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve are wont to do, and you get one impression. That impression isn’t untrue, it’s just misleading due to painting an incomplete picture.
Cherry-pick another window in time to demonstrate how great of an investment gold is, like certain champions of investing in precious metals are wont to do, and you get another impression. That impression isn’t untrue either, it’s just misleading, again due to painting an incomplete picture.
From 3500 BC to 2650 BC the price of gold rose from 7 rocks/oz to 35 clay tablets/oz
From 2650 BC to 1500 BC the price of gold rose from 35 clay bricks w/straw to 3500 sphinxes [Hebrews took it all]
From 1500 BC to 850 BC the price of gold rose from 3500 golden calves/oz to 7,000 babyls/oz
From 850 BC to 300 BC the price of gold rose from 7,000
Hams/oz to 14,000 olives/oz
From 300 BC to 300 AD the price of gold rose from 14,000 helmets/oz to 36,000 Gaulic wenches/oz
roflmao !!!
Amen!
Hard to accept the idea of “gold as USA money.”
Seems more like a speculative investment.
From 1970-1980:
(1) USA gold prices increased 24 times.
(2) USA oil prices increased only 11 times.
(3) USA Consumer Price Index increased only 2.12 times.
And, as noted by another post, USA gold prices collapsed after 1980, but there was no corresponding USA deflation.
Might be a semantic quibble, but I wouldn’t qualify flight to safety as speculative. Certainly a speculative element capitalizing on the trend, but the trend itself wasn’t.
The artificial, fixed price in place since the Depression was clearly too low in the eyes of a domestic market prevented from buying and holding it. Never did it return to that level.
Maybe a buying opportunity combined with a nearly concurrent economic upheaval just snowballed. Sort of going through the same thing now, although the medium term economic outlook is pretty bad by any standard. Even in light of that, gold seems peaky at the current level to me.
I don’t have the nerve to buy any at this level, certainly. I doubt I’m alone, so barring some major shock, I’m doubting the aggressive upward projections as wishful thinking by people who hold precious metals, and hawking the sale of it by people who want more money.
But you have to be a complete nincompoop to not be concerned about any investment that becomes a fad. The best principal to follow is, if the kid that parks your car is buying something (or even talking about it) it's time to sell.
I agree with your point concerning the government controlled price of gold.
The 24-fold increase is clearly a political distortion, not a financial one.
I tried to find the 1970 “market rate” for gold jewelry, but nothing relevant popped up.
Despite my comments, if I had any discretionary funds at the moment, I would buy gold on every dip.
The macro economic picture is utterly shocking to my eye.
The Fed is destroying our currency - we have trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities - American voters in both parties show a higher and higher tolerance for wealth destroying socialism - and millions of new USA citizens vote massively for Democrats and lack the job skills and education to contribute meaningfully to the tax base.
I've been a student of business and politics for almost 50 years.
For the first time in my life I don't see how America can grow, innovate, or legislate its way out of this mess.
The US dollar was a hyper roller coaster ride in the 1980's. Ran way up in value from 1980 to 1986 and then collapsed. Probably best not to judge gold with dollars in that period. Gold had run up in value and then the price came down when the US dollar when on its hyper roller coaster ride. When the dollar later collapsed around 1986, gold partially recovered, but the loss in dollars from the roller coaster was a done deal by 1986. Gold in dollars was fairly stable between 1988 and 2000.
Read Martin Armstrong’s latest as he compares the past with current events...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40437058/Show-Me-the-Money-10-15-2010
It’s not about paper money per se but how governments always debase their currency when debt gets out of control and/or overreach for socialist goals. Gold records the event. Happens all the time throughout history and damn if it’s not happening again.
One thing articles like this tell me: there are people who have—
—forgotten,
—disbelieve in,
—or leave unstated for various reasons
that Demand pushes up prices, and
that Demand can be artificially induced.
Yes, the actual value of gold is pretty stable. The price fluctuates, not only with the inflation/deflation of currencies used to purchase it, but with the demand of people outbidding each other in an effort to own it. Such people believe it to be undervalued in currency and are willing to bid higher and higher sums for what is mainly useful (other than as a store of “value”) as a form of decoration.
Like tulips, perhaps.
Absolutely. Since it's hard goods, it can never be in a bubble.
Just like tulip bulbs.
Just like silver.
I have to disagree with his assertion that the run from $35 to $850 was not a bubble, and it was similar to the other instances mentioned. Those were true hyperinflation, post-war in some cases and post-bank-collapse in others. We had inflation in the U.S. in the 1970s but it wasn't hyperinflation like in the other cases. We used our paper money as money, not as firewood; we continued to pay mortgages rather than pay them off because it was cheaper than buying another stamp; etc.
And while that $35 starting point was artificially low, so some of the rise (to $200 or so?) was gold catching up to its "real" inflation-adjusted value, we certainly had bubble behavior at the end: gold necklaces being snatched in broad daylight, for example. Only gold and silver crashed in dollar terms after their very spikey tops; real estate for example was a better store of value from 1980-2000.
Mail me to get on or off the Free Republic Goldbug Ping List.
p.s. Hey folks if you have just a couple of seconds, could you "flag as spam/overpost" a couple of craigslist posts from a continuing, non-stop spammer (or two or three), it'd help my neighbor out.
http://www.free-stockphotos.com/download-free-gold-bubble-pictures/
The events of which you speak were anomaly of such short duration that they are not even a blip on the long term curve.
The author is correct, your argument is not sound
you omitted
———never knew
But, that's not to say that there is a bubble in gold prices. It always takes time (too long for those who take a bath) to discover if a rising price is just a bubble.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.