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1 posted on 03/07/2011 7:13:18 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

So why is there no call to reduce and eliminate welfare?

Could it be our politicians are afraid of riots?


2 posted on 03/07/2011 7:15:32 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: SeekAndFind
Also Social Security payments are not proportional to the amount "contributed". If someone made the maximum amount taxible and therefore paid the absolute maximum SS tax through their entire career they would get a certain amount of SS payments on retirement. If a second person made half that much money and therefore paid half the maximum SS tax, they would get more than half the payment the first person was paid. That disproportionate payment is a sign of redistribution of wealth and thus a welfare program.

Most of the SS "fixes" I've heard make the program even more of a welfare program by removing the taxable income cap or means testing payments.

4 posted on 03/07/2011 7:20:39 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Washington is finally rid of the Kennedies. Free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“...draconian reductions in other programs.”

What’s wrong with that?


6 posted on 03/07/2011 7:23:18 AM PST by exinnj
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m okay with that label. At the same time, if SS payouts are welfare, FICA/Medicare is a tax. So, when Rush Limbaugh and others claim that 50% of the country don’t pay taxes (referring to income taxes only), that is misleading. Between the employer and employee (or self-employed) 15% or so is taken off the top as a tax. Because this tax ends somewhere around $100,000, it is truly a regressive tax.


7 posted on 03/07/2011 7:24:43 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: SeekAndFind

There is no way SS is a “savings program,” as some claim.

Someone could pay into it all of his/her working life, totalling potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars, and if he or she dies before the eligibility age, or shortly afterwards, and doesn’t have a surviving spouse or minor children, all that money is gone, absorbed into the system to pay others.

On the other hand a private retirement account can be passed down as an inheritance.


8 posted on 03/07/2011 7:27:22 AM PST by rightwingintelligentsia (Forcing one person to pay for the irresponsibility of another is NOT social justice.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Social Security is an earned benefit.

The prescription drug benefit for seniors is welfare.


9 posted on 03/07/2011 7:29:34 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, this is why the budget problem is so difficult. Nearly all of our seniors are on welfare and they are content with the notion of redistributing income and wealth from the young to themselves.


10 posted on 03/07/2011 7:30:45 AM PST by Walts Ice Pick
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To: SeekAndFind

Social Security is reverse welfare—people giving up their hard-earned money to support a monolithic State. I understand the rhetoric, but I’m damned offended to be classified as a welfare recipient of a program that takes money that I could have used to become a millionaire in retirement and doles it out to me in amounts barely enough to allow me to dine on Alpo.


11 posted on 03/07/2011 7:30:45 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, well, well. I wish I could remember the screen names of the people yelling at me for making the same point a week or so back.


12 posted on 03/07/2011 7:30:45 AM PST by Huck (la la la)
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To: SeekAndFind
This article is simply nonsense. It uses the word welfare which has come to mean payments given to people who do nothing to earn them and applies that name to social security just to create shock value.

The original concept of social security was that people paid into it on a regular basis and received the benefits when they retired. It was forced savings by the government for the common good. The concept was that social security would be separate from the regular budget and would be self funding. Social security ran large surpluses throughout most of its history.

The politicians have since screwed things up but the people who pay into Social Security still expect to see something at the end.

If the politicians say Social Security is welfare then give me back all the money I paid in over the years.

16 posted on 03/07/2011 7:35:15 AM PST by detective
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To: SeekAndFind

“We don’t call Social Security “welfare” because it’s a pejorative term, and politicians don’t want to offend. So their rhetoric classifies Social Security as something else when it isn’t. Here is how I define a welfare program: First, it taxes one group to support another group, meaning it’s pay-as-you-go and not a contributory scheme where people’s own savings pay their later benefits. And second, Congress can constantly alter benefits, reflecting changing needs, economic conditions and politics. Social Security qualifies on both counts.”

He forgot the requirement that there be no voluntary consent in the matter. This is what I keep pointing out when people claim SS and medicare/medicaid are supposed to help us and that it is our own money going into them. Why it’s so hard for them to figure that out is beyond me.


17 posted on 03/07/2011 7:36:01 AM PST by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: SeekAndFind

This is warped logic from the get-go. My employers and I contributed approximately $160,000 over the past 47 years into the SS fund. Had I been able to invest that money at an average return of 5% for all those years, compounding yields over $840,000 in the account. At my current payout rate, I need to live to 132 to get my money back. How’s is that welfare?

Also, Bush tried to privatize SS, but people said “No! It’s too complicated and I don’t want the responsibility.” Idiots! My Mom contributed all her working life up to age 66 and then retired, only to die of a brain aneurism 7 months later. If we had private accounts, that money would have passed onto her heirs. As it is, the gov’t gets her contributions. How’s that welfare?

This guy’s definition of welfare is simply wrong.


20 posted on 03/07/2011 7:38:39 AM PST by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
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To: SeekAndFind

You have some say in going on welfare. You have no say in paying for Social Security. Forced welfare.
Welfare has its flaws, and it’s certainly gone to extremes, but you’re not forced to sign up for it. Yet.


21 posted on 03/07/2011 7:39:58 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: SeekAndFind

Easy fix for SS. Stop all SS payments to anyone who isn’t a retiree.


26 posted on 03/07/2011 7:44:56 AM PST by Seruzawa (What's Democrat's legacy? Almost 1/2 million dead US soldiers and collapsed cities.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I have a fix for Social Security, and it has been in my mind for 35 years. Had we done “it” 35 years ago, every working American would now be putting 35% of their FICA tax, PLUS 35% of the employer’s payroll tax, into an account with his or her NAME ON IT.

But, of course, “it” wasn’t done 35 years ago, nor any time since; but it is not too late to start.

Here “it” is: the first year, 99% of FICA and payroll goes where it has always gone — into the Social Security fund — very little pain there for current benefits. Might ask for a 1% cut in present benefits (on average maybe $13 a month), just to show good faith. Also in the first year, 1% of FICA and payroll tax goes into an account with the employee’s name on it. No one but the employee or his/her survivors has any access to it.

In the second year, 98%—2%. Third year, 97%—3% and so on. How painless is that? Almost imperceptible.

Along with the one-time 1% benefit cut, enact a 1 year per decade increase in retirement age (so people have plenty of time to prepare). Then, sunset the ridiculous SSI boondoggle. It is nothing more than a Christmas tree ornament that has millions of Americans feigning bad backs or jake legs and hiring lawyers to help get them into SSI heaven, thus to help them live out their lives in Snaggletooth Estates, wearing sleeveless bare midriff T-shirts and selling dogs — while costing taxpayers a fortune.

It would take 100 years, but it would totally end Social Security as we know it, an allow our descendants to have a far better form of it. The beauty is that the process would begin immediately; and decade-by-decade, we would see a greater and greater increment of the entire society being invested in work and saving for retirement.


27 posted on 03/07/2011 7:46:18 AM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great... ...until it happens to YOU.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I have a fix for Social Security, and it has been in my mind for 35 years. Had we done “it” 35 years ago, every working American would now be putting 35% of their FICA tax, PLUS 35% of the employer’s payroll tax, into an account with his or her NAME ON IT.

But, of course, “it” wasn’t done 35 years ago, nor any time since; but it is not too late to start.

Here “it” is: the first year, 99% of FICA and payroll goes where it has always gone — into the Social Security fund — very little pain there for current benefits. Might ask for a 1% cut in present benefits (on average maybe $13 a month), just to show good faith. Also in the first year, 1% of FICA and payroll tax goes into an account with the employee’s name on it. No one but the employee or his/her survivors has any access to it.

In the second year, 98%—2%. Third year, 97%—3% and so on. How painless is that? Almost imperceptible.

Along with the one-time 1% benefit cut, enact a 1 year per decade increase in retirement age (so people have plenty of time to prepare). Then, sunset the ridiculous SSI boondoggle. It is nothing more than a Christmas tree ornament that has millions of Americans feigning bad backs or jake legs and hiring lawyers to help get them into SSI heaven, thus to help them live out their lives in Snaggletooth Estates, wearing sleeveless bare midriff T-shirts and selling dogs — while costing taxpayers a fortune.

It would take 100 years, but it would totally end Social Security as we know it, an allow our descendants to have a far better form of it. The beauty is that the process would begin immediately; and decade-by-decade, we would see a greater and greater increment of the entire society being invested in work and saving for retirement.


28 posted on 03/07/2011 7:46:18 AM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great... ...until it happens to YOU.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Social security is welfare. Okay so is Union Pensions by teachers and public sector employees. What a teacher and public sector employee pays into their pensions does not even cover the magnitude of the ‘welfare’ of the social security system. There maybe some significant problems with social security, but there is a different problem in that the pensions plans are resulting in the few sponging off the backs of the taxpayers.

Spread the wealth of the taxpayers to a bunch of yahoos whom feel entitled to what - being crappy teachers and damn poor workers whom are only concerned in their belief it is there fair share. Damn they never paid in the amount that they get as their pension.

I watch the DPW and many are useless workers. What is orange and sleeps four? A DPW truck.

Teachers in Wisconsin for example teach and yet the students are unable to read and do math. Seems welfare is more given to people whom are not doing the work they were hired for and only seeking after a higher degree Masters degree so they can have a higher income.

People pay into social security for years, yes they collect, but is it there fault the amount they paid does not meet the amount they are paid.

so saying social security is welfare, why not pensions for public employees is to be considered the same. Oddly a public sector employee gets social security too.


31 posted on 03/07/2011 7:47:47 AM PST by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: SeekAndFind
Social security is not in any way welfare.

Welfare is where you get something somebody else paid for.

Social security is where the government takes your money and it is wasted by a bureaucracy so nobody gets it.

33 posted on 03/07/2011 7:48:55 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: SeekAndFind
This thread illustrates why Entitlement reform is so difficult.

100% of the Left supports entitlements, simply on principle if for no other reason.
And a large percentage of "conservatives" support entitlements like Social Security on the basis of 'I paid in, I want what I deserve'.

My opinion is that nothing will change within the political process -- there is too much support for things which mathematically cannot work.

Therefore, I see collapse and war as inevitable. The entitlements will stop, not in an orderly, measured, tapering off fashion. No, the day will come when it all stops cold turkey and people begin to die.

36 posted on 03/07/2011 7:49:52 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: SeekAndFind
Its a little bit too late for Americans to start "worrying" about Social Security.. The so-called trust fund was robbed many decades ago.. Democrats looted the trust fund long, long ago.. The problem is what do "we" do with it "NOW"...

Privatize it or lift the ladder up so few can get on it.. Make it optional hoping and praying many on it DIE?... SSA was a Chinese Fire Drill from the very beginning.. as is literally everything invented by democrats..

A good plan could be constructed based in the private sector.. but it would be a total re-write.. a completely different system.. But the federal government itself would have to be reduced to its core and re-invented as well..

NOT LIKELY... America is way too brain washed..
America does not even know democracy is Mob Rule by mobsters YET..

41 posted on 03/07/2011 7:58:25 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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