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To: jazusamo

I’ll insert my generic post on Road Pricing...


Road Pricing

So here we are, looking at a mileage tax. It’s very emotional, since it squarely attacks one of our major freedoms in the US, which is the ability to get in our cars and drive around without ANYONE knowing what we’re doing. We can even drive cross-country and it’s likely that no one will know we ever left home, if we pay cash the whole way and stay clear of places (like motels) where they require ID. So, I want to take a calm and measured look at this.

In my case, based on my income (assuming, of course, it continues), my debts (very small, just a house payment at 20% of my take-home, and my cash at hand (plenty), I figure that I can pay whatever tolling rates they want, without barely noticing. And, if they did implement this scheme, it would almost certainly clear the roads of traffic, something that I would like (although others would have a tough time affording to drive on those clear roads - after all there is a reason why they’d be clear). In other words, from a purely selfish standpoint, I should support this scheme...but I don’t.

So why not? In a perfect world, where Atlas DOESN’T have to shrug and where everyone acted as finely tuned robots, nothing could be better than pricing road travel to assure the exact same level of traffic at 4:30 in the morning as 4:30 in the afternoon...and the same traffic at 5 AM Sunday, as 5 PM Friday. We would simply get the best use out of our roads. That is why this idea sits well at CATO and Heritage...where very well-paid, pointy-headed guys simply want to be able to drive home after work without having to “fight the traffic”. But, of course, it’s not that simple.

So, let’s step back and look at why we might want to impose a Vehicle Mileage Tax (VMT). I can think of several reasons:

1) There are two many cars on the road at a given time (i.e., rush hour).

2) We are importing too much oil.

3) We are not collecting enough revenue to fix and expand our roads.

4) People are driving cars that are too big

5) We are emitting too much carbon

6) Driving without restrictions simply represents too much freedom for a modern, progressive, society.

7) We want to sell-off our roads to someone with lots of cash, to pay down the national debt.

So, you step back and try to figure out how to address the above and look at the options.

Option 1: Increase revenue enough enough money to keep up with highway needs

Option 2: Increase revenue enough to seriously cut down on road travel and provide extra money for social programs.

Option 3: Control the movements of people, and allow those movements to be monitored...also pay back debts to other countries.

You find that an increase of the gas tax will help with everything except #6 and #7, which is controlling freedom and paying our debts. Even with a high gas tax, people will still drive where they want, when they want. If money is just needed for highway repair and expansion, an increase of the gas tax of, maybe, 25 to 50 cents per gallon will easily cover it. If we want to cut way back on imported oil, then 2 to 4 dollars per gallon of tax increase will cover it. That same increase (2 to 4 dollars per gallon) will also provide PLENTY of revenue to repair and expand highways...and the expanding part will not even be necessary with fuel prices that high (i.e., there will be a LOT less driving).

So we come down to #6 and #7. #6 (i.e., monitoring of peoples’ movements) is obvious - once you have GPS, then THE G-MAN will know where you are at any time. For #7, you’re getting into how to payback our creditors (mainly the Chinese and Japanese, but also much of Europe and US banks). The idea is that once a mileage-based tolling system is in place, the revenue can be sent overseas and our banks...which may prevent WW3 (particularly after we finish disarming). The amount of money that can be generated...if priced for maximum revenue, is likely 30 to 50 cents per mile (average)...or close to a trillion dollars per year.

To be honest, I have no clue what the long-term intentions are, I only look at what COULD be done.

Needless to say, this crap needs to be stopped PRONTO, as we have much better options than giving government control over where we drive, what we drive, and when we drive.


2 posted on 03/25/2011 6:51:04 PM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: BobL
Needless to say, this crap needs to be stopped PRONTO

Amen to that!

7 posted on 03/25/2011 6:56:11 PM PDT by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: BobL
Very good post, Bob. Here's my take on this . . .

I think there are a lot of flaws in the whole "mileage tax" concept, but the underlying premise is not unsound. The whole purpose of it is to address what is becoming an increasing disconnect between a motorist's use of a public roadway and the amount of money they pay in taxes to use it. As cars become more fuel efficient and more cars use forms of energy other than gasoline, the revenue generated through traditional fuel taxes simply declines.

Let's look at a basic flaw of the fuel tax: in some respects it has no connection to just how much use a motorist has on a highway system. Think about it: if two vehicles are driving next to each other from Los Angeles to New York and one of them gets 40 miles per gallon of fuel and the other gets only 20, does the second car really "cost" the public only half as much for the use of the highway system between Los Angeles and New York?

12 posted on 03/25/2011 7:32:06 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: BobL
1) There are two many cars on the road at a given time (i.e., rush hour).

If you want to reduce that you need to reduce employment. People driving in rush hour are going to or from work. Taxes have no effect on this because the job pays for the transportation. The mileage tax doesn't help here.

2) We are importing too much oil.

If the taxing is done per mile then it makes sense to buy the largest, least efficient truck you can get. This way you can deliver more per mile driven. The mileage tax is ineffective here.

3) We are not collecting enough revenue to fix and expand our roads.

There is no such thing as "enough revenue." Every budget can be expanded by 10%, infinitely. The mileage tax is ineffective here because the goal is not attainable.

4) People are driving cars that are too big

As I mentioned above, the mileage tax would work to make this problem worse.

5) We are emitting too much carbon

The mileage tax would reward you for emitting megatons of carbon per mile driven, as long as you only drive that one mile. I heard the Shuttle crawler will be for sale soon...

20 posted on 03/25/2011 9:42:58 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: BobL

There is no way I am allowing my movements to be monitored. Armies of freedom-loving geeks like me will hack this system into uselessness.


22 posted on 03/26/2011 4:44:37 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
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