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Live Thread: Barack Obama Speech on the Libya Kinetic Military Action 7:30 P.M. EDT 3/28/11
Monday, March 28, 2011 | Kristinn

Posted on 03/28/2011 4:13:23 PM PDT by kristinn

Obama is scheduled to speak at the National Defense University at Ft. McNair in Washington, D.C. about Libya at 7:30 p.m. EDT.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dearleader; ilduce; illegalwar; kinetic; kineticbs; liars; libya; obama; obamajihad; obamalibyaspeech; obamawar; warmonger
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To: jwalsh07

“This section is a tacit admission that the POTUS has the power to use military force without a congressional resolution or declaration of war.”

Yeah, that´s surely what the founders intended - the power to wage war being determined “tacitly” by a very specific reading of legislation.

My take is that this is just a way of stating that congress always has the last word, regardless of how the President interprets the WPA.

I.e:

The President:”My fellow Americans. I have tonight taken the grave decision to invade Norway, as I was recently made sick by spoiled Lutefisk. This surely constitutes an “attack on the United States” under the WPA.”

Congress: “Uh, no it doesn´t.”

The President: “Sorry guys, but you already authorized this attack under the WPA.”

Congress: “Look, your bullshit interpretation doesn´t mean anything. Look here at Sec.5 (c). Now get our forces out of Oslo!”

If your interpretation of Sec.5 (c) being a universal endorsement of any Presidential military action, the rest of the act would be unnecessary. Congress could merely step in whenever they felt the President was starting too many wars.

But that´s not how the actual act looks - for good reason. Stopping an ongoing war is a very different action from starting one in the first place.


651 posted on 03/29/2011 1:06:29 AM PDT by globelamp
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To: jwalsh07

I am really at a loss as to how these lines:

“The Congress shall have Power...”

“To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;”

...can be interpreted as the role of congress being that of signing off on war funding ex post, I.e. after war has already been declared by the President. “Declaring war” and “signing off on funding of war” are two *very* different things.


652 posted on 03/29/2011 1:12:33 AM PDT by globelamp
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To: GOPJ
"I bet O doesn’t mention that many of those Libyan rebels have direct links to al Qaeda. Never thought we'd be fighting WITH AlQaeda..."

Just wait, Sir...it will get worse with the uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, and possibly Saudi Arabia, et al. This is only the beginning.

Mark these words. We are watching history unfold for the Islamic caliphe movement. I also predict that sub-Saharan Africa will get pulled into to the fight against Western civilization. They are ripe for such a revolution, as they fought against their barbarous warlords for decades. Again, think Somalia, Ethopia, Chad, Nigeria and on...

Now that things have calmed down somewhat in their pissy little tribal wars, they will find a reason to whine and cry and rape and maim and kill anything Western. Just watch. Cultures are not equal. I knew that when I was a child of 14.

Feel free to call me a racist, but why has Africa been so long behind the civilized curve? Because they are poor? And why IS that? Because the West doesn't give them enough money? If so, why have so many other cultures pulled themselves out of poverty to build a better standard of living? I'm telling you...

They will join the religious fanatics of Northern Africa and the ME only because they have no one else to support them - think Sudan. It's coming and there's not a damn thing any of the politically correct will do to stop it.

Israel and the West are the targets. If we don't wise up like France is doing with curtailing their immigrations problems and outlawing full-face veils, we are all heading over the abyss! Sharia Law is building! It's nothing right now in the States, but has become very influential in Western Europe. The darkness is heading our way...

653 posted on 03/29/2011 2:33:33 AM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath Is Forever)
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To: MagUSNRET

I realize this of course.Using the race card STILL shows how pathetically desperate they are. It just shocked me at the time at how low they would go.


654 posted on 03/29/2011 4:44:38 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama:If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun (the REAL Arizona instigator))
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To: Aleya2Fairlie; maggief

After I saw the MSNBC segment with the guy that took over for Olbie (I don’t know his name but he is a flaming progressive commiecrat) and they had on how Trump and 72 percent were racists for daring to question Obama’s birth record.Maddow came on and she had a pic of PRECEDENT of the US. She was dissing Obama in a very vague way yet honoring him by saying he answered all questions then saying what next?

Back to CNN Trump was on the phone with the British dude commentater Richardson and Anthony Weiner.They were discussing OIL and Obama’s speech. Trump told Weiner but good on OPEC.Weiner whom Trump has DONATED to before said Mista Trump we know you be breaking away off the polling and are not going to be a POTUS candidate (It was like Weiner was saying Trump was playing games and they both knew it)I hate to say this but I think Trump is playing interference for someone to challenge Obama as strange as this sounds...


655 posted on 03/29/2011 4:57:10 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama:If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun (the REAL Arizona instigator))
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To: kristinn

Barack Obama has now fired more Tomahawk Cruise Missiles than all other Nobel Peace Prize winners combined!


656 posted on 03/29/2011 5:13:18 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
I think Trump is playing interference for someone to challenge Obama as strange as this sounds...

Hillary.

657 posted on 03/29/2011 5:18:15 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: paulycy

Yeah but if Trump is truly so brilliant how does he not see that Hillary is Obama with fake I feel your pain class? What would Trump gain from let’s say NWO? Does Trump really care about America in the mom and pop ethics and values way as he is showing? Why would a smart businessman back the toons? Bills global initiative?


658 posted on 03/29/2011 5:24:27 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama:If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun (the REAL Arizona instigator))
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To: paulycy

BTW: Yahoo news had a video headline news clip about Hillary running for POTUS. —It was strange.— It said she is done but that Chelsea will be 35 so the Clinton’s aren’t going away.


659 posted on 03/29/2011 5:27:57 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama:If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun (the REAL Arizona instigator))
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To: altura

That was the first thing I picked up on in the clip I saw. The eyes. They looked demonic. Did he lighten them with contacts? Very strange.


660 posted on 03/29/2011 5:30:09 AM PDT by jersey117
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!

Do you believe a thing Hillary says about her own aspirations?


661 posted on 03/29/2011 5:32:20 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: altura

They put eye shadow on him.


662 posted on 03/29/2011 5:39:29 AM PDT by HollyB
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To: paulycy; Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
I think Trump is playing interference for someone to challenge Obama as strange as this sounds...

"Hillary."

Ding, ding, DING!

"I am conservative . . . but quite liberal and getting much more liberal," he said. "What is the purpose of the country if you are not going to have health care. . . . It's an entitlement to this country." (Trump, re. possible Reform Party presidential candidate October 7, 1999)

663 posted on 03/29/2011 5:50:36 AM PDT by maggief
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To: kristinn

“Winning The Future” = WTF = What The #$@!

“Kinetic Military Action” = KMA = Kiss My @$%


664 posted on 03/29/2011 5:53:32 AM PDT by kevkrom (De-fund Obamacare in 2011, repeal in 2013!)
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To: ohioWfan; Dryman

Not my artwork, but it’s very representative of Mordor-on-the-Potomac.


665 posted on 03/29/2011 5:56:03 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: kristinn

Listening to any speech by American “Traitor” POTUS, Barack Hussein Obama is a waste of time. Here’s the real skinny my fellow Americans. Qaddafi will stand. Jordan, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Suden, Yemen, etc. will turn radical Muslim/Terrorist just as Obama wants them to. Obama, Wright, Farrakhan, Jones, Powers, Jarrett, Ayres, will celebrate along with George Soros on how dumb the American public really is and how destroying the American republic is like taking candy from a baby!!! Sad!!!


666 posted on 03/29/2011 5:59:25 AM PDT by JLAGRAYFOX (America Adrift At Sea Without A Captain!!!)
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!

When Barry talks it’s almost like hearing an old 8-track player. Same thing over and over.


667 posted on 03/29/2011 6:00:41 AM PDT by freebird5850 (Of course Obama loves his country...it's just that Sarah Palin loves mine!)
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To: maggief

That’s a very interesting quote. I didn’t know he was thinking about politics back then. He and Hillary would have all the gimmicks sewed up - “business” “first woman” “faux conservative” “faux moderate”

Of course it only works for them if people are too stupid to realize that it’s a gimmick and not trickery. These people are as sincere as 0bama...


668 posted on 03/29/2011 6:01:16 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: jwalsh07

Are you saying one section of the WPA contradicts the other?


669 posted on 03/29/2011 6:07:55 AM PDT by DrewsMum
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To: paulycy

http://articles.cnn.com/1999-10-25/politics/trump.cnn_1_reform-party-donald-trump-independence-party?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Trump officially joins Reform Party
PAT BUCHANAN
October 25, 1999

(snip)

Stone told CNN that Trump will soon begin travelling to Miami, Los Angeles and other cities to meet with Reform Party leaders to assess the prospects of winning the partys presidential nomination.


670 posted on 03/29/2011 6:08:08 AM PDT by maggief
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To: maggief

So Trump wanted to run a Trump/Oprah ticket? Is this guy Hollywood through and through or what??? And Pat Buchanan was in there, too. What a mixture of ego and bullcrap.

There is one thing I’ll give them some credit for though. Both Trump and Pat are very good analysts. What they do with what they’ve analyzed is what I have problems with.

But Trump a Constitutional Conservative? Not a chance. I have quite a bit of experience with hollywood types and I see it in Trump. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw his Tower.


671 posted on 03/29/2011 6:17:13 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: kristinn

He failed to explain very simpy - ‘what is the final objective’. It’s one thing to say why we are there, but another to explain to us his definition of ‘mission accomplished’. I don’t think he even knows. When Gates doesn’t even believe we should be there, then I don’t think a true plan has been put together. God forbid if they send our men & women in and restrict them on their ability to defend themselves or engage.


672 posted on 03/29/2011 6:21:15 AM PDT by HollyB
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To: rlmorel

It turns out it must have just been the station I was watching that made some sort of shadow above his eye, as I didn’t notice it when watching clips on other channels. HDTV I guess??


673 posted on 03/29/2011 6:24:13 AM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: kabar
I wonder what happens when the rebels start wiping out civilians who were loyal to Ghadaffi.

Easy fix - it just doesn't get reported.

674 posted on 03/29/2011 6:27:30 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Hail Mary Full of Grace, The Lord Is With Thee...)
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To: paulycy

Agreed. That is why I have said from the start of Trump jumping on the birther bandwagon ... watch what the other hand is doing.

Trump is getting mega free publicity and is missing vital points in the BC argument.

I smell a ‘Rat.


675 posted on 03/29/2011 6:28:08 AM PDT by maggief
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To: maggief
I smell a ‘Rat.

I believe you are right on the money. Thank you for the very informative links.

676 posted on 03/29/2011 6:31:08 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: Lucky9teen

BFL...nice map


677 posted on 03/29/2011 8:14:52 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: jennyjenny

Darn.

I am always gratified by the incompetence of these people, since I feel that it will contribute to their ineffectiveness, which can only be good for our country if they can’t get their agenda done.

That someone would allow him to go on national television with a smear of unblended (Teal!) makeup was hilarious to me...alas, a false alarm!


678 posted on 03/29/2011 9:05:43 AM PDT by rlmorel (The first casualty of Liberalism is The Truth...)
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To: DBeers
I am in favor of protecting US interests both people and property through any means necessary including lethal force. I am in favor of once again having the world recognize that if any touch one hair on a US citizen such action releases the wrath of all US might upon them.

Me too.

I think that is okay per the Constitution.

Do do I despite what the War Powers Act says. The primary purpose of the fedguv is to protect American citizens. The Constitution gives the CIC the power to do that, not Congress. So the CIC has to be able to make war on the bad guys when they attack American citizens which is why I had no problem with Obama or Reagan trying to kill Gadaffi.

Of course Obama is a marxist moron who claims that Gadaffi isn't the target but I didn't vote for the idiot. In spite of that I would not want to diminish the next Reagan the power to kill bad guys who harm Americans while Congress dithers.

679 posted on 03/29/2011 10:16:33 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: DrewsMum
Are you saying one section of the WPA contradicts the other?

I am saying that any law that forbids the CIC from making war on terrorists or countries that harm American citizens is no law at all and antithetical to the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. It is the duty of the federal government to protect it's citizens and the WPA forbids the CIC from doing just that under certain circumstances as I described above.

680 posted on 03/29/2011 10:19:58 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: HollyB

We listened for years as the Rats droned on about Bush and “no exit strategy.” I haven’t heard a peep from any of them about what is Obama’s “exit strategy”?


681 posted on 03/29/2011 10:34:42 AM PDT by kevao (I)
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To: globelamp
1. Taking on terrorists in international waters is not “war” as reasonably defined. Launching hundreds of cruise missiles at the military of another country, followed by a large-scale bombing campaign is, on the other hand.

To argue that close combat isn't war while dropping missiles is is sophistry and not to be taken seriously. War is armed conflict between parties. But I agree that not all military action rises to the the level of "war" as commonly understood when the Constitution was drawn. Of course the duration of the armed conflict doesn't make you any less dead if you are KIA. Do you think terrorists taking Americans hostage is not an act of war? Can and should the CIC respond in kind without a Congressional resolution or declaration of war? There is no section in the Constitution mentioning exigent circumstance but certainly the POTUS has the power to make war on those terrorists, no?

2. The mass killing of Americans is the very definition of “a national emergency created by attack upon the United States.” So even if it was a foreign government who killed the US citizens, there would be no case for the President being prevented to act in the absence of congressional authorization.

For some folks the facts don't matter. The purpose of that section of the WPA was to prevent the CIC from doing just that. See President Ford and the evacuation of Americans and SOuth Vietnamese from Saigon in 1975 while Congress dithered. But it is nice to know that you think the POTUS can acting constitutionally by making war on terrorists who make war on American citizens constitutionally without an act of Congress.

3. The Libya scenario is the definition of the kind of war where you do want congressional approval, I.e. a war of choice where no threat to US territory, property, or citizens exists.

I agree. Obama is moron. What else is new?

If conservatives are going to be taken seriously when pushing for a meaningful interpretation of the constitution, making the requirement for congressional authorization of war void is not a good path to go down.

Congress has powers to check the executive. They have the power of the purse and the power of impeachment. The CIC has the power to make war and when American citizens are attacked that is exactly what he should do. Gadaffi killed American citizens and had Obama explained that his goal was to kill/remove Gadaffi for doing that with the bombing I would support him right now. But he didn't because like I said he's a moron.

But diminishing the power of the CIC for all time with idiotic unconstitutional bs like the WPA because America elected a moron is not something I'm getting on board with.

Adios.

682 posted on 03/29/2011 10:46:55 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!

Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid wrote:

“Weiner was saying Trump was playing games and they both knew it)I hate to say this but I think Trump is playing interference for someone to challenge Obama as strange as this sounds...”

I think you’re right! If Trump really wanted to back a Conservative agenda, he would never have given in to the urge to trash W. I think Trump is trying to pull a fast one.


683 posted on 03/29/2011 10:53:25 AM PDT by Aleya2Fairlie
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To: optiguy

No worries.. My reaction was to take it in a good way.. Then I thought maybe I should correct my typos just for the record.. so I took the opportunity to do so. Thank you for the comment, FRiend. It’s always great to know there are like-minded folks out there! :)


684 posted on 03/29/2011 10:53:49 AM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts (Give me Liberty.. or I'll get up and get it for myself!)
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To: jwalsh07

“I am saying that any law that forbids the CIC from making war on terrorists or countries that harm American citizens is no law at all and antithetical to the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. It is the duty of the federal government to protect it’s citizens and the WPA forbids the CIC from doing just that under certain circumstances as I described above.”

First of all, you are wrong on so many levels...are you aware that the CONSTITUTION forbids the President from making war w/out Congressional approval? Are you saying it is “no law at all”....??? The WPA does not forbid the CIC from fighting any wars, it forbids him from randomly invading countries as his mood strikes him....he AT LEAST has a check of power and has to get congressional approval....


685 posted on 03/29/2011 11:00:18 AM PDT by DrewsMum
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To: kristinn
Kinetic Military Action = KMA

How apropos

686 posted on 03/29/2011 11:01:13 AM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier preparing to deploy to Afghanistan)
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To: DrewsMum

Did you read anything I wrote? Sheesh.


687 posted on 03/29/2011 11:02:42 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

I quoted it back to you....what did I miss?


688 posted on 03/29/2011 11:04:07 AM PDT by DrewsMum
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To: Aleya2Fairlie; paulycy; maggief

A lot of BS progressive talking points but listen very carefully in the end of the video (below) the exchange between Weiner and Trump on polls and running. Tell me what you think, there ‘something’ there?

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/29/clips-from-last-night-donald-trump-battles-anthony-weiner-over-presidential-prospects/


689 posted on 03/29/2011 11:15:00 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Obama:If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun (the REAL Arizona instigator))
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!

That was a good clip. The only thing I got from their back-and-forth about running is that they would like to rip each others’ face of but they can’t because they are on television...


690 posted on 03/29/2011 11:29:11 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!

I agree! Trump and Weiner sound as if they have a private joke that only they know about right now. Sounds like friendly jesting between allies doesn’t it?


691 posted on 03/29/2011 11:39:26 AM PDT by Aleya2Fairlie
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!; Aleya2Fairlie; paulycy

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/04/donald_trump_gave_anthony_wein.html

Donald Trump Gave Anthony Weiner $2,000

4/20/10


692 posted on 03/29/2011 11:53:40 AM PDT by maggief
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ps. Trump-> Hillary-> Huma-> Weiner


693 posted on 03/29/2011 11:55:39 AM PDT by maggief
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To: maggief
Donald Trump Gave Anthony Weiner $2,000

Oh, you mean as a political donation. ;0)

694 posted on 03/29/2011 11:56:56 AM PDT by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: GOPJ

The obvious irony of that state dinner for Hu Jintau was that the 2009 Nobel “Peace” Prize winner was hosting an expensive affair for the man holding the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize winner in prison.

Such irony, yet none of the so-called journalists in the Obama-run media bothered to point it out.


695 posted on 03/29/2011 12:10:44 PM PDT by Carling (Obama: Inexperienced and incompetent, yet ego maniacal. God help us all.)
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To: optiguy
I was referring to myself as the smart ass.

Heh! :) I knew that is what you meant.. but hey.. It's a trait to be admired!
696 posted on 03/29/2011 1:28:01 PM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts (Give me Liberty.. or I'll get up and get it for myself!)
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To: paulycy
How come I'm never in on the ground floor of this nonsense?


697 posted on 03/29/2011 2:25:59 PM PDT by Daffynition (DBKP ~ Death By 1000 Papercuts)
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To: Drill Thrawl

Agreed.

But my comment was pretty clearly aimed at leftist politicians, not soldiers.


698 posted on 03/29/2011 4:30:42 PM PDT by NYCslicker
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To: Scott from the Left Coast

Don’t forget phlegmatic.


699 posted on 03/29/2011 5:57:37 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5
For #700,

"I am not a muslim!"

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

700 posted on 03/29/2011 6:20:29 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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