Posted on 04/16/2011 3:49:09 PM PDT by UniqueViews
"I don't think he is really serious when we see a campaign launch on the birther issue," Cantor said.
On Friday, Karl Rove told Fox News Trump is a "joke candidate" because of his birther-centric media cavalcade.
"It's amazing," Trump said. "He's so against me, because I am questioning. All I want to see is the guy's birth certificate."
(Excerpt) Read more at tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com ...
Your use of the expression, “dead end” is apropos on this topic.
Okie, some people who did bring it up before the election received threats, even death threats.
The meaning of “natural born citizen” has been known for centuries. Going back through the records of Congress and the many floor debates thereon, it appears frequently.
The Law of Nations is mentioned is Article I, section 8, of our Constitution, so the framers certainly did know that document. That they would reference “natural born Citizen” as an eligibility requirement to be President in Article II, section 1, from that same document shouldn’t be construed as the framers were ignorant of its meaning: born in a country of citizen parents.
Others have a different opinion.
Many have no opinion -- including the courts.
You cannot assume the courts will agree with your opinion.
As to Article I, Section 8...
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations
That is most assuredly not a cite of Vattel's "Law of Nations". It's a boilerplate expression -- like "Law of the Sea". The capitalization is an artifact of the time -- when nouns were capitalized, as in German.
Actually, using a foreign passport over the age of 18 would disqualify him. Sven Magnussen has posted relevant laws and statues, in effect at the time (and maybe still, I can’t remember). Sven also quoted laws or statues or whatever they are detailing exactly how a child adopted by a foreigner could indeed renounce and officially lose US citizenship. So with 0h0m0, everything is up in the air. He may not be a US citizen of any kind at all.
Until all documentation is made public and vetted legally, no one knows what the deal is with him - what is his legal name, legal citizenship state - “natural born” or even “regular”, or even who his parents are. What to speak of his birth place.
“...He [Obama] couldn’t lose his American citizenship by virtue of being adopted and declared an Indonesian citizen as a minor.”
The above is true, as far as it goes.
But Obama stated when he entered Congress for the first time, that until then he had never had a passport, a statement patently FALSE.
He traveled between Indonesia and Hawaii frequently. As his mother’s passport records indicate, he did not travel on her passport. So he must have had his own, and as Lolo’s son it would have been an Indonesian passport. Since he could be a dual citizen until age 19 that wouldn’t normally be a problem.
Neil Sankey, a PI, discovered that the SSNs Obama used while at Occidental College both began with 999-XX-XXXX prefixes. These are reserved for use by foreign students studying in the U.S. and receiving government financial assistance. This would indicate that Obama, who used the name Soetoro while at Oxy, was considered a foreigner.
But in 1981 Obama traveled to Pakistan and India. He does not reappear until sometime late in 1982 in New York City.
Did he use an Indonesian passport as an adult? That would require repudiating all nationalities save one, and swearing allegience only to Indonesia.
Which brings me to the issue of his immigration records.
Pamela Barnett is Lt.Col Lakin’s attorney. She discovered that Barry Soetoro has an immigration record with Homeland Security. It is blocked and she hasn’t been allowed access.
http://www.terrylakinactionfund.com/tlafradio/54-tlafradio20110411.html
If he was a native born citizen, why would he have immigration records?
Rove, Krauthammer Kristol and a few others who have polluted and effectively destroyed Fox News have to be made to understand, in no uncertain terms, that they are irrelevant, that they speak for no one but what is left of their “Cocktail Party” branch of the Republican Party. They are old news with no understanding of how politics changed the day that Øbama began his run for the Presidency.
Fox News used to be on my tv all day long. Now it is only on when I know in advance that someone I want to see will be on.
LOL!
Since when did you become an expert on international law?
I was very concerned about Obama's lack of loyalty months before he was elected. America voters had to be soft as a grape to vote for this Obama with three Muslim names. He's an outsider. He is not an American. Plenty of white liberals hate American capitalism and worked to get him elected
“Since when did you become an expert on international law?”
I think Oki is one of the DU trolls from a few days ago.
Well, I studied International Law in college...a long time ago.
But the U.S. Constitution hardly qualifies as international law -- no matter how much Breyer and Ginsburg may want it. And it is common sense that tells us the Law of Nations in Section I, Article 8 isn't a citation of any sort.
And I'm not arguing beyond that. My point is to rid people of the notion that Indonesian citizenship as a child would automatically negate American citizenship from Obama -- if he was indeed born in America.
I don't dispute the rest of your reports.
Not if he wins the Republican nomination. Only if he runs independant. That’s what I’m waiting for to play out.
The NBC issue has been brought up in other elections, and it was brought up during the campaign for the 2008 elections. The Dims and the dominant media squashed it. You appear to agree with them. Is that the case?
You refer to Chester A. Arthur, I assume. The controversy with him, though, had to do with his place of birth -- not whether he was a "natural-born citizen". Was he born in Vermont -- at the time and place he claimed? Or was he born in Canada, a few months earlier.
There was no dispute concerning the nationality of his father: Everybody knew he was British. Yet, the NBC argument never rose to the point of relevance.
In any event, the whole controversy went nowhere -- and Arthur's birthplace was assumed to be Vermont.
and it was brought up during the campaign for the 2008 elections. The Dims and the dominant media squashed it.
Gee. By whom? And why didn't it even get any mention on this board? The entire fol-de-rol began with postings from Hillary supporters -- and, initially, it was solely concerned with Obama's place of birth.
You appear to agree with them. Is that the case?
I personally believe that the NBC argument is a red herring, a distraction, a dead end. Just because we have an opinion on what makes a citizen "natural-born" doesn't make it the law of the land. And that legal issue is not going to be resolved by the courts under the current circumtances.
I.e., dead-end.
All the time and effort wasted on the NBC argument would be better spent determining whether Obama was, in fact, born in the USA. Or, at the least, what there is on his birth certificate that he is hiding. That would actually mean something.
It was all over the place on this board. Numerous threads.
Now? Yes. A year ago? Yes.
In August-October, 2008, birth certificate concerns? Yes.
But I frankly don't recall a single post voicing the NBC issue.
Nor do I recollect a peep from any other source on this subject...until well after the election.
So, if there were exchanges on the subject, they must've been both rare and obscure.
Fact remains: the NBC angle is a dead-end. And it's sad to see people treating it as if it were a silver bullet.
Liar. Sorry. I’ve been following avidly the NBC research on FR since spring 2008.
What you say is absolutely false.
"But I frankly don't recall a single post voicing the NBC issue."
"Nor do I recollect a peep from any other source on this subject...until well after the election."
How are those "lies", LJ?
Think about it.
Leo Donofrio filed suit against the illegal placement of the British subject Obama on the New Jersey ballot before the election.
see naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com
Hope this helps.
Uh - the election was in November 08.
Spring 08 was before the election.
I was reading obsessively about NBC stuff on FR in the spring of 08, which was, if you get out your calendar and count the months and stuff, before the election.
Sheesh.
OK, I take you at your word.
I said I didn't recall any such threads. Birth certificate, yes. NBC, no.
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