Posted on 04/27/2011 1:13:06 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Where was President Barack Obama born? In Kenya, as his grandmother is alleged to have said, or in Hawaii, as most everybody else says?
Is Obama eligible to be president? The Constitution requires that a person holding that office be a "natural born" citizen. If our president is not natural born, then he has perpetrated one of the greatest frauds in American history.
It's a real issue, politically speaking. Even more people today believe that Obama was born in Kenya than they did in 2008, when he was running for president. A New York Times/CBS poll found that 45 percent of adult Republicans believe that Obama was not born on American soil. That's up from 32 percent a year ago.
Even 10 percent of Democrats believe Obama was born in another country, with 9 percent unsure.
Conspiracy theorists have pointed to irregularities in Obama's "Certification of Live Birth" issued by the State of Hawaii. Questions arise whether that document was contemporaneous with Obama's birth or whether it was made later -- or even forged.
The questions just won't go away, even though they probably should -- not because Obama absolutely, certainly and incontrovertibly was born in Hawaii but because it doesn't really matter in terms of his eligibility for the office of president.
Lately the pot has been stirred by real estate mogul Donald Trump, who has not yet admitted publicly that he himself is running for president even though he shows many of the earmarks. Trump is currently seen in third place, behind Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee.
Trump points out -- accurately -- that Obama has never produced an original long-form birth certificate from any hospital in Hawaii. All that's on record is that "Certification," which is less authoritative and which is being attacked as a forgery from an official template.
Information continued to emerge. In a sworn deposition earlier this year, Tim Adams, former senior elections clerk for Honolulu, told of his official attempts to find an original birth record. He was unsuccessful. No contemporaneous long-form record is on file at any Honolulu hospital for baby Obama.
Adams claims that the government of Hawaii -- arguably the most Democrat of all Democrat states -- was covering up. In his affidavit Adams swears:
"During the course of my employment, I came to understand that for political reasons, various officials in the government of Hawaii, including then-Governor Linda Lingle and various officials of the Hawaii Department of Health, including Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of the Hawaii Department of Health, were making representations that Senator Obama was born in Hawaii, even though no government official in Hawaii could find a long-form birth certificate for Senator Obama that had been issued by a Hawaii hospital at the time of his birth."
"I can go get my long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate," Adams told a reporter. "And so I don't understand. This whole controversy should have been settled three or four years ago in about five minutes."
As to the "Certification of Live Birth" issued by the State of Hawaii, it doesn't prove a thing, according to Adams.
"Certifications of Live Birth were given to people who were born at home, or to people who were born overseas and whose parents brought them back to the islands," Adams said. "If his parents were U.S. citizens, or if one parent was a U.S. citizen, as was the case with Obama, the family would apply for a Hawaiian birth certificate when the parents came back from overseas. That's normally how you would have gotten one in the 1960s."
So, is Barack Obama eligible to be president of the United States?
We hate to break this news to the conspiracy theorists. They have brought up a significant political problem for Obama but not a constitutional one. Yes, Obama is eligible.
Barack Obama's mother was an American citizen. That makes Barack Obama a "natural born" American citizen, regardless what country he might have been born in.
Certainly, a confirmation that Obama was born on Kenyan soil would be a political bombshell, but only because he's been swearing that he wasn't. Americans don't like their presidents to lie (unless it's Bill Clinton, who received a pass even after committing perjury in the Monica Lewinsky affair).
In fact, none of this business about birth certificates changes Obama's constitutional eligibility for the office of president. So let's move on. Put the question of compliance with the Constitution behind us.
Meanwhile, we're with Trump: We still want to see Obama's original long-form birth certificate. It should be easy to get. We wouldn't be surprised to find that somebody already got it.
Seems now the argument is being twisted to one parent instead of two parents for natural born citizens.
This whole thing is consuming the political landscape and both sides seems to think its a winning issue for them.
Adams also said that rather than the usual office where birth reports came to from the hospitals, Obama’s was to another office which was a short distance from the grandparent’s house.
The experts can address the NBC issues. (1) He can never be a NBC because his father wasn’t a U.S. Citizen. Need BOTH parents to be citizens. (2) SADO has her own issues. Need to have been in the U.S. for five years and wasn’t (I forget the legal point there. (3) Indonesia doesn’t allow dual citizenship and Barry could have only attended school there as a citizen of that country. He renounced his U.S. citizenship.
Of course, also a major credibility issue if the long form birth certificate says anything drastically different than the COLB or what Obama has said.
Once again, they are attempting to move the goalposts.
Just out of curiosity...When was Obama's mother and father married?
What does this prove? That Obama is a fraud and a liar? Didn’t we all know that?
“The experts can address the NBC issues. (1) He can never be a NBC because his father wasn’t a U.S. Citizen. Need BOTH parents to be citizens.”
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Can someone give me a link to a definitive answer on this point?
I am so sick of these pompous ass “reporters” and pundits
that prattle on about Obama being a natural born citizen
just because his mother was American, and nothing else matters.
Two American citizen parents on American soil. Period!
Click on NaturalBornCitizen at the top of the page with all the various topics.
Click on a few links and you’ll find tons of info. More than you want!
Here are a couple monster threads:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2040486/posts?page=5364
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2702976/posts?q=1&;page=1501
There was a good one on NBC (natural born citizen) earlier today. Scroll down a bit for tonight’s topics. Gets fairly technical with all the legal jargon.
They aren’t even addressing NBC usually. They just assume the only issue is where his birth took place.
Even Trump gets it confused. Obama has shown the CertifiCATION of Live Birth. But not shown the Certificate of Live Birth (a/k/a long form birth certificate).
CNN said a while back Hawaii destroyed all the old records. They’ve gone digital. Long form doesn’t exist. Then a Hawaiian official said the long form does exist and she’d seen it. People requested and received the long form 2 weeks ago. Now you can’t get them. It’s a moving target!
The long from will include the hospital and signature of doctor. Would show if the grandmother applied for one on her own with no hospital birth.
Hawaiian law then and now allows for children born to state residents to apply for BCs even if the child is born outside the state or country. So Obama could have a valid BC and still not be born in the U.S.
Would also indicate if it’s been amended. Or if Obama was adopted (Obama has claimed and attorneys acting on his behalf that he was never adopted by Soetoro).
Good luck sorting through it all!
It's unlikely that this issue will last up to the elections. I think it will be solved whether Obama wants it solved or not.
If it's solved sooner rather than later and somehow all the records get released and nothing's with them. I think neither side will win or lose.
If there's a major crime and fraud and we're close to the elections I fear it could actually backfire on the republicans because Americans have no idea about eligibility and NBC. That's a shame.
So, I hope that if all is fine with the records we will learn about it sooner rather than later.
If a crime had been committed where people like Nancy Pelosi could end up going to jail and Obama facing charges as well... better for us to find out about it after the elections and deal with it then.
But deal with it we must.
And this has the pamphlet distributed to members of Congress to answer citizen questions — this is the other side of the legal debate (link included in this discussion of NBC):
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/11/members-of-congress-memo-what-to-tell.html
It says there’s no state or federal requirement for a candidate to produce a birth certificate but the political process, including a “free press”, takes care of that.
Ha! Right after they have the tingle up their legs.
This is Obama's weakest point. Regardless of where he was born, or how many parents need to be citizens, the fact that he may have renounced his US citizenship is the one thing that would definitely disqualify him. As I understand it, US citizenship, once renounced, can no longer attain natural born status.
Perhaps Trump should send his investigators to Indonesia for information about Barry Soetoro's citizenship records there.
Natural-born citizens of the United States are those who are citizens of the United States from birth without having to perform any act to acquire or perfect their American citizenship. These are those whose parents are citizens of the United States at the time of their birth.
Natural-born American citizens are those born of American citizen parents, within or without the American Republic, provided in the latter case that one of the parents had resided in the United States prior to the birth of the child.
Their American citizenship is natural, the result of parentage, and not artificial or acquired by compliance with legislative provisions.
A natural-born citizen is one not made by law or otherwise, but born. And this class is the large majority, in fact, the mass of our citizens; all others are exceptions specially provided for by law.
A natural-born citizen is defined as one whose citizenship is established by the jurisdiction which the United States already has over the parents of the child, not what is thereafter acquired by choice of residence in this country.
It is not necessary that a man should be born in this country, to be "a natural born citizen." It is only requisite he should be a citizen by birth, and that is the case with all the children of citizens who have ever resided in this country, though born in a foreign country. Natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens and naturalized citizens, are those born in the United States of parents who are citizens.
Natural-born citizens are also those born outside the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the birth of the child.
Hence, a child born abroad to two US citizen parents is a natural-born citizen: Provided, That at least one citizen parent had previously resided in the United States or one of its outlying possessions. U.S. Code: Title 8, 1401.
The US code seems pretty clear that both parents must be US citizens for the child to be natural born. Barack Obama, Sr. was born in Kenya and died in Kenya and, to my knowledge, was never a US citizen. It seems pretty hard to conclude that Obama meets the criteria of a natural born citizen then. That being the case, it's equally difficult to conclude that he meets the constitutional eligibility requirement to be POTUS. That's just my angle on this for what it's worth which might not be much.
I have seen all the FR post, and I have the Canada Free Press bit, but I want to go crazy when I see some newspaper editor
spew out that Obama is a citizen, just because his mother was a citizen...Grrrrrrrrr
How does one fight stupid?
FReepers need to mail bomb this idiot in Provo.
The Congressional Research thing I posted disagrees with that. Someone posted a detailed legal-style brief on the topic (agreeing with your position) two weeks ago.
SCOTUS won’t address the issue and all the courts have punted on the issues based on ‘no standing.’ 9th Circuit is hearing some arguments but likely that’s just a headline, “Birther’s Case Thrown Out” move as they are leftists.
I’m hoping Trump or Jindal or Rubio file for Declaratory Judgment and ask the Courts — going all the way up — “Can we run or not? Define NBC.” All three would have standing as they are potential candidates and have similar parental citizenship issues. Trump seems to be the one most likely to do this.
The term “natural born citizen” next appears in the Law of Nations, a treaty between nations which established certain universal standards, one of which being the term “natural born citizen.”
The related passage from Vattel’s book on the Law of Nations reads as follows;
“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.” JB Williams Wednesday, April 21, 2010 Canada Free Press http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/22262
[duplicating my reply from the chat thread]
Not making any claims but there is an error in the article here:
“It is the source from which our nation’s Founding Fathers entered those words into the US Constitution, under Article II—Section I—Clause V;
“No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;”
Not “native” or “naturalized” or “citizen,” but only “natural born” citizens can hold the office of president.”
When he states “Not “native” or “naturalized” **or “citizen,”** but only “natural born” citizens....” he refutes what is stated in the Constitution:
“No person except a natural born citizen, **or a citizen** of the United States,...”
IOW, he contradicts himself quite evidently. I’m surprised he made such a mistake when it’s there for all to see.
Again, not saying whether it is operative or not - just that he is mistaken by saying that it doesn’t say “OR citizen”. It clearly does.
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