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To: Khepri; Mr Rogers
I think it's a pretty clear in 920 that both parents were required to have citizenship (all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens)...despite the claim in 946 by the poster of zero, one or two, as 920 is a later ruling. (1844 vs 1874)

Did you not see this part of the citation in #920?

It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.

1,097 posted on 04/27/2011 12:59:52 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480; Khepri

Lynch is tough reading. The citation I gave for it is hard to read, at least for my aging eyes. However, it makes a powerful case, and WKA repeated its reasoning.

“That all children born within the dominion of the United States of foreign parents holding no diplomatic office became citizens at the time of their birth does not appear to have been contested or doubted until more than fifty years after the adoption of the Constitution, when the matter was elaborately argued in the Court of Chancery of New York and decided upon full consideration by Vice Chancellor Sandford in favor of their citizenship. Lynch v. Clark, (1844) 1 Sandf.Ch. 583.” - WKA

and “And if, at common law, all human beings born within the ligeance of the King, and under the King’s obedience, were natural-born subjects, and not aliens, I do not perceive why this doctrine does not apply to these United States, in all cases in which there is no express constitutional or statute declaration to the contrary. . . . Subject and citizen are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives, and though the term citizen seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, subjects, for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land.

2 Kent Com. 258, note.”

There is no doubt but that natural born subject is a term that applied to children of alien parents, so WKA applied that definition to him. And if WKA met the criteria for a NBC, then he was a citizen - which is what the formal ruling said.

The DISSENT in WKA argued against it:

“Considering the circumstances surrounding the framing of the Constitution, I submit that it is unreasonable to conclude that “natural-born citizen” applied to everybody born within the geographical tract known as the United States, irrespective of circumstances, and that the children of foreigners, happening to be born to them while passing through the country, whether of royal parentage or not, or whether of the Mongolian, Malay or other race, were eligible to the Presidency, while children of our citizens, born abroad, were not.”

But that was the dissent, and it never answered why the Framers used NBC if they didn’t mean it in the same sense that it was used prior to 1787...


1,147 posted on 04/27/2011 1:36:32 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Pyro7480
Did you not see this part of the citation in #920?

Yeah I saw it. That's why I cited the 1874 case...
1,518 posted on 04/30/2011 12:03:18 PM PDT by Khepri (Change -- How's that working for yah?)
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