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To: NelsTandberg
Political indoctrination disguised as "facts" and "scientific research". Pathetic.

For most contemporary Americans
So now we're picking and choosing vague subgroups already... do we mean "urban" by that?

scientific studies indicate that the health risk of a gun in the home is greater than the benefit.
Please publish said studies o that we might judge for ourselves their scientific methods and merits.

The evidence is overwhelming for the fact that a gun in the home is a risk factor for completed suicide
This seems to presume that the suicide would not occur without the gun in the home, which is patently false. The suicide would simply find another option. Ergo, the presence of the firearm adds nothing to the "health risk" of potential suicide. Next?

and that gun accidents are most likely to occur in homes with guns.
Gee, ya got us there. Without a gun, a gun accident likely won't happen. Well done. *applause* Drownings don't happen without water. Want to ban water? Got any reasoning that isn't axiomatic and empty?

There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes.
Firearms only intimidate those who do not have their own firearm... and any moron who uses his home firearm to intimidate his family is clearly an abusive jackal who would use a table lamp to effect the same terror and control. The presence of the gun, again, does not actually alter the landscape of the situation. It merely puts a different tool in the hand of the wrong-doer.

On the benefit side, there are fewer studies
Most intelligent people do not need a study to tell them that a useful tools for emergencies, like a fire extinguisher, is handy to have round, just in case. We hope to never have to use it... but we're glad it's there. No study required. Just 3 seconds of clarity.

and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms
That's odd. Police seem to carry them as a way to deter bad people from doing bad things. Is that not evidence in your "scientific studies"?

or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in.
Possibly true (and congrats on getting to your fist potential point!!!), but this does not specify who the injured party is. I, for one, will be more than happy to have an altercation or break-in end with injury to the parties who are intending to commit criminally violent acts against my loved ones. If the presence of the firearm increases the likelihood of THEIR injury, and reduces the likelihood of OUR injury as opposed to when we do not have said firearm (and I suspect it might!), then this turns from a point in your favor to (yet another) counterpoint against your "argument".

Thus, groups such as the American Academy of Pediatrics urge parents not to have guns in the home.
How did you go form "most contemporary Americans" to all "parents"? Those are two different groups. Again, some very seriously flawed leaps in logic. Care to address ANY of them, oh dear AAP? I'll look forward to ant reasoned arguments. I have yet to see one in this article.

16 posted on 04/30/2011 8:01:06 AM PDT by Teacher317 (really?)
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To: Teacher317

(dang typos! Gotta spell-check!!)


21 posted on 04/30/2011 8:05:43 AM PDT by Teacher317 (really?)
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To: Teacher317
For most contemporary Americans So now we're picking and choosing vague subgroups already... do we mean "urban" by that?

A few days ago an entire family was killed in Rockford, Illinois and their house was set ablaze to compromise the evidence.

I wonder, were they some of the contemporary Americans these twits say don't need a gun?

28 posted on 04/30/2011 8:29:21 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Teacher317
This seems to presume that the suicide would not occur without the gun in the home, which is patently false. The suicide would simply find another option. Ergo, the presence of the firearm adds nothing to the "health risk" of potential suicide. Next?

First...yeah.

Second, what these jerks are saying is that I shouldn't have a gun because you're more likely to survive taking too many sleeping pills or cutting your wrist than you are putting a shotgun in your mouth. Maybe we should ban tall buildings, too...a 20 story fall is very likely to be a completed suicide.

Third, some other evidence to back up your "determined suicide" point...I recalled that last year (during the big flooding in the Midwest) that a retired Milwaukee physician and his wife (who had the beginnings of Alzheimers ) composed a detailed suicide note and then sat in their car with helium-filled plastic bags over their heads. While searching for the story on the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel website to make sure I was remembering the facts correctly, I had to go through several pages of articles on suicides. There was the guy who stepped in front of a train...the 16 people who've jumped off the Hoan Bridge to their deaths since 2001...even a guy who set his car on fire and burned inside. I guarantee that every one of those folks either didn't own a gun or chose not to use it only because they didn't want their family finding their brains splattered all over. I mean, come on...the dude who burned himself to death wouldn't have put a gun in his mouth insteadif he had one?

Fourth, if I don't own a gun, never have owned a gun and then go to Walmart to buy a shotgun, take it home and blow my brains out, I get included as a "guns in the home" suicide. Yeah, that's so scientific! and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms

IIRC, the federal government's official statistics disagree with that finding. Can someone refresh mymemory?

40 posted on 04/30/2011 8:58:49 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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