Posted on 05/31/2011 11:13:45 AM PDT by Smokeyblue
It can also be shown that natural born citizen is not a synonym for citizen by looking at the 14th Amendment :
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
So, if natural born citizen was the same as citizen then you could substitute the term citizens in the Fourteenth Amendment with the term natural born citizens. Doing so gives this :
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are natural born citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside
So, if the two terms citizens and natural born citizens were synonyms, then that would imply that naturalized citizens - those born overseas and later granted US citizenship - are eligible to become President of the United States. Even elementary school children know that is not possible and was never the intent of the Founding Fathers.
1. If the natural born allegiance were only associated with the place of one’s birth what would be the natural born citizenship of a baby born to US citizen parents on a ship sailing under the Liberian flag in international waters?
2. If a baby was born in the USA to illegal aliens (Mexican citizens), what is the natural born citizen status of this child?
3. If the same Mexican citizen parents had a baby born in Switzerland, would the baby be a natural born citizen of Switzerland?
You're being silly. What gives some Frenchman's opinion the force of law? It's just not as open and shut a case as some here might like to think.
ML/NJ
Bookmark, excellent work, thank you!
1. If the natural born allegiance were only associated with the place of one’s birth what would be the natural born citizenship of a baby born to US citizen parents on a ship sailing under the Liberian flag in international waters?
Under US law, the child would be a citizen. There has long been dispute about if the child would be a natural born citizen or not. I suspect the courts would rule yes, if asked.
2. If a baby was born in the USA to illegal aliens (Mexican citizens), what is the natural born citizen status of this child?
The courts have held that NBC applies to a child born of parents here in amity - with the acceptance of the US government. The child of an invading army, however, is not, since the parents are not here with permission of the US government.
It would be interesting to get a court ruling, but while I think the answer is no, I also think there is at least a 50:50 chance the court would rule yes.
And if they were Mexican tourists, here with permission, then the answer is undoubtedly yes.
3. If the same Mexican citizen parents had a baby born in Switzerland, would the baby be a natural born citizen of Switzerland?
Beats me. The Swiss have different terminology and laws. Our Constitution, as the courts have consistently held, is interpreted in light of the English common law that provided it the language of law. That is why Vattel is irrelevant to discussions of citizenship under the US Constitution. He is used as an authority when the citizenship involves vessels on the high seas, or on questions of foreign citizenship.
contratulations jerome corsi!!!
The change of US Immigration law (from 1790 version to the one adopted in 1795) indicates that early legislators did not equate citizenship at birth and NBC. The first law (1790) is the only one in the USA history using the phrase NBC (to describe the status of children of US citizens born abroad). The law was changed only five years later and such children were declared as citizens at birth.
If early legislators did not think that two phrases were synonymous - neither should we.
Hamilton suggested that the eligibility requirement for US presidency be citizenship at birth. We know that the adopted language explicitly mentions NBC. The moment we start arguing whether a person is a NBC, the debate is over. When it comes to the NBC definition there is no ambiguity, no debate is needed. Such a child can only have the citizenship (allegiance) at birth to one country. .
The WKA case ruling declares a child born to permanent resident parents a citizen at birth - not an NBC.
As I pointed out, the NBC status of those BORN ABROAD is in doubt. The NBC status of those born inside the US, of parents here legally, is not.
“When it comes to the NBC definition there is no ambiguity, no debate is needed.”
True enough - until 2008. Then people started arguing what had not been argued before - that someone born in the USA of parents here legally was not a NBC.
There IS no debate. No court will waste its time on the birther arguments. The Supreme Court has rejected multiple cases without bothering to hear arguments - because there are none, legally speaking. Only on WND and birther web sites...
Excellent post. There is only a couple of things I would add.
To be a Senator, you had to be a citizen for 9 years. To be a Representative, you had to be a citizen for 7 years.
Only the president had to be a natural born citizen or a citizen at the time of the founding as you stated.
The whole question as to where Obama was born has nothing to do with whether he is eligible or not. Him claiming his father was a Kenyan is all we needed to know that he does not meet the standard for a NBC. His supposed birth certificate supports that claim.
As the article states, we have made it possible for anchor babies to be POTUS. How right they are. We have one now. BVB
When I was in High School in the 1970s we discussed this topic in class. We learned that a “Natural Born Citizen” was a person born in this country with parents who were both citizens. Unfortunately, I do not remember whether the term was defined in our text book or by the teacher. I have been searching for old text books covering the US Constitution every time I enter a used book store. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be much demand for this type of book... they do not seem to be easy to find. I hope other freepers will search for these books also.
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