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2 Top Lawyers Lost to Obama in Libya War Policy Debate
NY Times ^ | 17 June 2011 | Charlie Savage

Posted on 06/17/2011 6:54:40 PM PDT by Hoodat

WASHINGTON — President Obama rejected the views of top lawyers at the Pentagon and the Justice Department when he decided that he had the legal authority to continue American military participation in the air war in Libya without Congressional authorization, according to officials familiar with internal administration deliberations.

Jeh C. Johnson, the Pentagon general counsel, and Caroline D. Krass, the acting head of the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, had told the White House that they believed that the United States military’s activities in the NATO-led air war amounted to “hostilities.” Under the War Powers Resolution, that would have required Mr. Obama to terminate or scale back the mission after May 20.

But Mr. Obama decided instead to adopt the legal analysis of several other senior members of his legal team — including the White House counsel, Robert Bauer, and the State Department legal adviser, Harold H. Koh — who argued that the United States military’s activities fell short of “hostilities.” Under that view, Mr. Obama needed no permission from Congress to continue the mission unchanged.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: carolinedkrass; doj; fascism; highcrimes; impeachment; imperialism; imperialpresidency; jehcjohnson; libya; obama; obamaswar; oup; pentagon; unconstitutional; warpowers; warpowersact
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To: Hoodat
Looks like Obama is moving into Clintonoid "parsing" areas now.

Thing is...he's not as good at it. This should be fun to watch.

51 posted on 06/17/2011 8:00:56 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: Hoodat
"I really hope the SCOTUS slaps him down on this. Forget the War Powers Act, this is purely a Constitutional issue. Congress, and only Congress can authorize engaging in war. "

Obama is doing things no differently than nearly every President since Andrew Jackson.

That somb!tch.

52 posted on 06/17/2011 8:03:22 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: silverleaf

Something is just... off ... with this entire situation.


FWIW, someone posted on a doom thread yesterday that some large object is going to miss the planet but mess up the equatorial water bulge, sending it north and south to deluge whatever land mass can take it.

That theory kinda explains some weirdness. Other than that, I’m just as clueless as to why zero gets away with the sh)t he does.


53 posted on 06/17/2011 8:14:48 PM PDT by txhurl (Did you want to talk or fish?)
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To: txhurl

Comet Honda

Check it


54 posted on 06/17/2011 8:16:30 PM PDT by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: Hoodat

There’s been substantial coverage of the House having voted on 6/14 to cut off funding for Libya. What hasn’t been made clear is that the vote was essentially worthless.

The House passed (248 to 163) an amendment to a military appropriations bill. While the appropriations bill has a good chance of passing the Democratically controlled Senate, the amendment will not actually cut off funding for Libya.

The wording of the amendment is key: “none of the funds made available by this act may be used in contravention of the War Powers Act.”

Obama has decided that the actions in Libya are not hostilities and therefore do not fall under the authority of the War Powers Act. So not only has Obama told Congress that he doesn’t have to consult them about this operation but also that he controls the money for it by way of a legal definition.

That’s why he overruled the Office of Legal Counsel.


55 posted on 06/17/2011 8:20:56 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: livius

Some lady from the audience asked Glenn Beck today if Hillary would be running for President in ‘12. Glenn said he thinks she will because the Dems will be bailing on O to save their own necks!


56 posted on 06/17/2011 8:24:55 PM PDT by spiderfern
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To: livius

Some lady from the audience asked Glenn Beck today if Hillary would be running for President in ‘12. Glenn said he thinks she will because the Dems will be bailing on O to save their own necks!


57 posted on 06/17/2011 8:25:01 PM PDT by spiderfern
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To: silverleaf

I really don’t want to check it.

Did enough research today to ~assume I’m OK where I’m at.

Maybe.


58 posted on 06/17/2011 8:27:37 PM PDT by txhurl (Did you want to talk or fish?)
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To: livius

Some lady from the audience asked Glenn Beck today if Hillary would be running for President in ‘12. Glenn said he thinks she will because the Dems will be bailing on O to save their own necks!


59 posted on 06/17/2011 8:28:54 PM PDT by spiderfern
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To: Hoodat

This is not an issue for the SCOTUS; it is for Congress to take action in the form of impeachment.


60 posted on 06/17/2011 8:29:46 PM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: Hoodat

If this were Bush the left and the anti war groups would be swinging from chandeliers throwing firebombs and rioting for impeachment and the press would be right there. Seems war is good when democrats do it.


61 posted on 06/17/2011 8:36:09 PM PDT by engrpat (A village in Kenya is missing their idiot...lets send him back)
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To: Hoodat

Libya is a straw, he’s establishing a predicate for something else far more dangerous.


62 posted on 06/17/2011 8:36:35 PM PDT by AU72
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To: Hoodat
NO NO NO....here what a true expert says: ‘Nothing More Impeachable' Than War Without Authorization, Says Constitutional Scholar
63 posted on 06/17/2011 8:44:02 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 "Woe unto those who say they are Judah and are not, but are of the synaGOGue of Satan.")
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To: Hoodat; All

The article refers to Hussein as a “constitutional lawyer”.

He is a constitutional lawyer in the same sense as Bill Clinton is a faithful husband.


64 posted on 06/17/2011 8:47:40 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Hoodat

Constitution? Forget the friggin’ constitution. I say send Obama to Brussels to answer for his war crimes!


65 posted on 06/17/2011 8:53:51 PM PDT by yup2394871293
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To: Hoodat

Bombing the shit out a country, even one like Libya that deserves it, definitely involves “hostilities”.

I guess Obama and Holder and Koh are using a different dictionary, perhaps the one that George Orwell used when he wrote “1984”. “War is Peace: Peace is War”.

Damned! That sounds likes Obama advisor Anita Dunn’s favorite philosopher Mao Tze-tung.

Now I understand it all.


66 posted on 06/17/2011 8:56:08 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Hoodat
Consider how this will fit into the billion dollar Obama reelection campaign!

Get ready for Debbie Schultz's TV commercials!! This is gonna fit right in! Big time!

Obama saved the U.S. economy (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009)

Obama saved major U.S. industries (GM & Chrysler)

Obama captures, kills, or defeats U.S. enemies (bin Laden, Gaddafi)

Obama cleans up a corrupt Congress (Weiner)

Obama converts our enemies (Muslims) into friends (screw Israel)

I'm warning you!! Get ready for it!!


67 posted on 06/17/2011 9:02:10 PM PDT by CharlyFord
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To: Hoodat
...argued that the United States military’s activities fell short of “hostilities"

Okay, let's ask Moammar if he thinks the U.S. is being "hostile"? If they're killing people, destroying government property and personal homes, it sure sounds like that would qualify as hostilities. Just how does the Obama Administration define the word? Is this another is doesn't mean is fiasco?

68 posted on 06/17/2011 9:11:17 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: Hoodat

“Jeh” is an odd name


69 posted on 06/17/2011 9:13:36 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (everything is almost done being unwound)
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To: himno hero

Libya is just a stinking sideshow. Have you been watching Iran’s moves while America is pre-occupied focusing on Obies side show?

Our community organizer has much more on his personal agenda than he lets on.

AND it ain’t good for America.


Our military is being bled dry and the economy is on the brink. The United States is being set up for the greatest military and economic “hit” in history. It’s called implementing the New World Order/One World Government. They can’t do it with a strong, soverign USA. They’re doing everything they can to take us down.


70 posted on 06/17/2011 9:19:30 PM PDT by unkus
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To: grumpa

He uses it for toilet paper.


71 posted on 06/17/2011 9:20:30 PM PDT by unkus
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To: silverleaf
Is this a dry-run for using US forces against Israel without Congressional constraint???

Well, he would be setting up a precedent. Everything else he's done has been praised as "unprecedented".

72 posted on 06/17/2011 9:21:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: tnvol01

It’s rotten from top to bottom. Huma Weiner, a muslim is Hitlery’s chief of staff. She has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on and on and on.


73 posted on 06/17/2011 9:24:54 PM PDT by unkus
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To: raybbr

Your right - BHO didn’t win anything - that’s TNYT with it’s propaganda again.


74 posted on 06/17/2011 9:27:42 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( The Palin Party: The Party of Patriots.)
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To: Mariner
Obama is doing things no differently than nearly every President since Andrew Jackson.

Remind me again the last President to go to war for three months without getting Congressional approval?

75 posted on 06/17/2011 9:35:36 PM PDT by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: Mariner
"Today, 50 years later, the IAF has no indigenously built aircraft of any worth"

These suckers are hard to build. Not just anybody can do it.

Why not buy a BUNCH of good airframes and engines from somebody...and put your own and best of class avionics and weapons systems aboard?

Thing is, you have to dial in on a basic configuration at SOME point and India doesn't seem to have found their groove yet.

If you want to be a power, you have to be able to put at least 2,000 fighters in the air and have a substantial number survive.

76 posted on 06/17/2011 9:36:43 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: livius
"He’s evil, he hates us, and he wants to eliminate anything that stands between him and total power."

Moochelle getting ready to bury the great US Constitution:

Since our "Dear Reader" is too busy on the golf links.

77 posted on 06/17/2011 9:37:40 PM PDT by spokeshave (Obamas approval ratings are so low, Kenyans are accusing him of being born in the USA.)
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To: Pan_Yan

He can do whatever he wants. He knows the Republicans in the House don’t have the guts to impeach two democrat presidents in a row.


I think it goes way beyond that. I beleive the Republicans, some Democrats, many in the Judiciary, Law enforcement, Intelligence and Military have been given “Offers they can’t refuse”. Their families have been targeted and they’d better not cross the line.


78 posted on 06/17/2011 9:38:55 PM PDT by unkus
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To: unkus
They’re doing everything they can to take us down.

Before anyone takes me down, I'll be knee deep in brass. That's all.
79 posted on 06/17/2011 9:39:33 PM PDT by jy8z (From the next to last exit before the end of the internet.)
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To: AU72

Libya is a straw, he’s establishing a predicate for something else far more dangerous.


.....against Israel.


80 posted on 06/17/2011 9:41:32 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Hoodat
Let me get this right.....

1: Air strikes and a vow to kill Qaddafi are not “hostilities.”

2: The AG and DOD lawyers say no, but his lawyer and Hillary's say “Ok,” so he goes ahead with it!

Where are the Dumb Dove Dems and why aren't they screaming?

81 posted on 06/17/2011 9:43:31 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Forget AMEX, remember your Glock 27: Never Leave Home Without It!)
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To: Bockscar

http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/mom-of-murdered-obama-gay-lover-speaks-up/

In late May, Wash. DC-based investigative journalist Wayne Madsen had a bombshell revelation about Obama’s membership in a Chicago gay club, Man’s Country. Madsen also reported on Obama’s sexual relationships with other men, including named D.C. politicians and Donald Young, the openly-gay choir-director of the church in Chicago of which Obama was a member for some 20 years — Jeremy Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ black liberation theology. Obama’s relationship with Young was confirmed by Larry Sinclair, who claims to have had two sex-cocaine trysts with Obama.

Larry Bland

There were two other openly gay men in Wright’s church: Larry Bland and Nate Spencer. In late 2007, as Obama began his ascent to be the Democratic Party’s presidential nominee, in a span of 1½ months, all three men “conveniently” died:

-Bland was murdered execution-style on November 17, 2007;
-Young was murdered execution-style on December 24, 2007;
-Spencer reportedly died of septicemia, pneumonia, and HIV on December 26, 2007.


82 posted on 06/17/2011 9:46:48 PM PDT by eaglestar
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To: Hoodat

Pretty cool maneuver .. just redefine ‘hostilities’ and, voila! you don’t need Congressional authority. Not unlike how 30% of American kids are suddenly “fat” or “obese” because the govt dropped weight standards. It is whatever you want it to be!


83 posted on 06/17/2011 9:47:27 PM PDT by EDINVA ( CHANGE it back!)
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: Hoodat

THE MAN WHO HATES AMERICA ND HER CONSTITUTION

86 posted on 06/17/2011 10:00:27 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Hoodat
But Mr. Obama decided instead to adopt the legal analysis of several other senior members of his legal team — including the White House counsel, Robert Bauer, and the State Department legal adviser, Harold H. Koh — who argued that the United States military’s activities fell short of “hostilities.” Under that view, Mr. Obama needed no permission from Congress to continue the mission unchanged.

I really don't understand this arguement... it only solves part of Obama's problem... the "hostilities" clause is only one of three instances where the War Powers Act is made effective. The whole clause is:

SEC. 4. (a) In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced--

(1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances;

(2) into the territory, airspace or waters of a foreign nation, while equipped for combat, except for deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces; or

(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--

(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;

(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and

(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.

(b) The President shall provide such other information as the Congress may request in the fulfillment of its constitutional responsibilities with respect to committing the Nation to war and to the use of United States Armed Forces abroad

(c) Whenever United States Armed Forces are introduced into hostilities or into any situation described in subsection (a) of this section, the President shall, so long as such armed forces continue to be engaged in such hostilities or situation, report to the Congress periodically on the status of such hostilities or situation as well as on the scope and duration of such hostilities or situation, but in no event shall he report to the Congress less often than once every six months.

While Obama has got everyone arguing about "hostilities" (as mentioned in paragraph (1)), it is obvious that paragraph (2)sets off the Act by virtue of the overflight of Libya with military hardware.

Am I the only one seeing this?

87 posted on 06/17/2011 10:09:27 PM PDT by So Cal Rocket (Task 1: Accomplished, Task 2: Hold them Accountable!)
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To: eaglestar

bookmark to look into


88 posted on 06/17/2011 10:09:33 PM PDT by DrewsMum (There is no other NAME whereby we may be saved....JESUS!)
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To: jy8z

Before anyone takes me down, I’ll be knee deep in brass. That’s all.


I’ll be right next to you. The bastards are in for a surprise they won’t like.


89 posted on 06/17/2011 10:31:14 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Hoodat
This is literally an impeachable offense.

It's almost like Barry wants it at this point, yet dumbass Boehner is going to play 18 with him tomorrow.

I'm guessing Barry is just trying to see how far he can go without losing the next election. An impeachment proceeding would probably rally people around him at this point, so I can see where he's coming from. He's playing politics with American troops, all so he can get himself the best angle for his rightful throne.

90 posted on 06/17/2011 10:31:20 PM PDT by Carling (At some point, those surrounding Obama have to realize that they are working for a psychopath)
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To: eaglestar

That sounds like some of those Arkansides under Clinton.


91 posted on 06/17/2011 10:39:42 PM PDT by unkus
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To: unkus

Reality? They cant do it anyway. There is nothing to replace it with other thn poverty and ignorance for all! Oh.... all overshadowed with 7th c3entury islam


92 posted on 06/17/2011 10:46:52 PM PDT by himno hero ("Armageddon is well seeded, America will pay"... Barrack Obama's vision)
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To: So Cal Rocket

The American press seems to think the US military is only refueling or doing recon. The Navy and Air Force are bombing Libya daily with Jets, not UAVS.

I am not sure if the WH lawyers are aware of this.

I for one hope we knock Qadaffi out. But, the potus should have sought authorization.


93 posted on 06/17/2011 10:48:18 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: himno hero

That’s what they want. Power and greed are all they care about. I’ve always wondered where their “life boats” are hidden. Do they think themselves immune fromm the disaster they are bringing upon us? They have no souls.


94 posted on 06/17/2011 10:51:35 PM PDT by unkus
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To: unkus

Satan’s children have no souls. The rest are fools.


95 posted on 06/17/2011 11:13:58 PM PDT by himno hero ("Armageddon is well seeded, America will pay"... Barrack Obama's vision)
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To: All; Hoodat
"2 Top Lawyers Lost to Obama in Libya War Policy Debate" is such a nice, innocuous way to put the headline.

If it were a few years ago we might've seen something like this instead:

"Bush Defiant! Pursues Illegal Libya War Despite Warnings"

96 posted on 06/18/2011 12:00:34 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: Hoodat

97 posted on 06/18/2011 12:04:05 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Hoodat

IT might be the Jimmy Carter moment we’ve been waiting for.

We’re half way through this dismal presidency. He claims, thanks to him we’re not in a worse depression, when in reality, they havn’t produced any manufacturing jobs.

One thing for sure, the longer this war goes on, the worse it looks. I’m sure when we hit the mile stones of 100 days, 6 moths, one year etc. he’s going to look pretty foolish.

I pray nothing happens to any service man while the Libya thing goes on, but it almost seems inevitable that we are going to lose someone there, or worse yet the person is captured. Then Gaddafi is home free.

This guy is like Castro. He’s going to survive this. And you better watch out America because revenge is hell.

Egypt is now a new platform for future terror. It will become the toilet of the middle east without military over sight there.

Syria, Iran...Is there any doubt that our forces there are keeping the peace as fragile as it is?

Israel is facing the UN resolution of a Palestinian state, and it’s interesting that OBAMA pushes for the 67 borders, probabaly knowing that is what the UN will insist on...

In summary, as bad as this guy is doing now, in a few more months he’ll be looking as inept as Carter. Anyone will be able to beat him. Anyone.


98 posted on 06/18/2011 12:31:53 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: RightGeek

SCENES WE LOVE TO SEE:

Grade school. Campaign stop for the annoited one. A question from a freckle faced nerdy kid with horn rimmed glasses.

Question:Mr President, you are a constitutioal lawyer...

Obama: (Interrupting) I am.

Kid:...Our constitution calls for natural born citizenship to be president. Your father was not a citizen of this country. So you are not a natural born citizen, and therefore not eligible to run for the office. How do you explain to us how you are eligible?

Obama: Ah...Thank you for the question... I think I supplied my birth certificate some time ago....to put the matter to rest. Next question.


99 posted on 06/18/2011 12:39:21 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: perfect_rovian_storm; Hoodat
Today on the show Glenn was asked if Hillary would run for President and he said yes she will because things are going to start to fall apart soon for Obama. I thought he was implying that The One would choose not to run for re-election but perhaps there's more to it than that.

This Israel stuff is more serious than it looks and Libya is part of Obama's campaign against Israel.

Remember the Samantha Power/UN plan? Glenn said the NATO forces in Libya will be used against Israel. What is that thing called? Something about defense of civilians?

100 posted on 06/18/2011 2:12:45 AM PDT by athelass (Proud Mom of a Sailor & 2 Marines! Pray for Netanyahu, Gen. Petraeus, Tornado Alley)
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