McConnell's Plan Shows Weakness (Rush gives him hell)

If the issue is ‘fairness’, as in, “It’s not fair that the richest don’t pay taxes”, then would RIGHT NOW be the time to say, “It’s wrong that any class pays taxes while the other class doesn’t, and you’ve got more people getting benefits than you do taxpayers right now.”

Under a flat tax system, you make a dollar, you pay a dime, and it doesn’t matter anymore how much or how little you make.

People on the bottom and the very top will probably scream, but that’s the point - right now its the people in the middle who are paying the freight.

You want to do something BIG - layoff the entire IRS and go to a flat tax structure, thus ending class warfare forever.

It’ll be a 100 percent certainty that ANY talk of future tax increases will be scrutinized from the top of wage earners to the bottom, and those on public assistance.

The real problem is that this isn’t a crisis. It’s all phoney and I’m tired of the GOP cowards playing in this phoney world.

Why have a debt limit if every 15-18 months they just raise it anyway?

And not raising it does not mean default. That is a bald-faced lie if anyone says it. The interest on the debt can still be paid from current taxes along with soc sec and military pay, etc.

Not raising the ceiling can force real spending cuts. And we all know there are billions of wasted crap in the budget.

P.S. Your idea at the end is a good one. I’m all for it.

I genuinely admired and admire George W. Doesn’t mean that I didn’t cringe at his domestic policies.

WRONG! The way they give power over to the President is by DOING NOTHING to stop him. You think they are abiding by laws that you site??

To give dictatorial power to Obama all they have to do is fail to do their jobs. Look at what’s happening in Libya. He didn’t get Congress approval, but he goes on as if it’s nothing. They continue to fund the operations so they in fact has given that power to Obama to declare war without their approval. Obama just does whatever he wants and Congress lets him do it.

“And not raising it does not mean default. That is a bald-faced lie if anyone says it. The interest on the debt can still be paid from current taxes along with soc sec and military pay, etc.”

I agree, but not raising the debt ceiling puts the ball in Obama’s court and there is no telling where he will hit it. He’s planning to default, even though that is not necessary and imho not even legal.

“Not raising the ceiling can force real spending cuts. And we all know there are billions of wasted crap in the budget.”

Alas, no it cannot force real spending cuts, because they already have made approrpiations. Only passing different budgets will change those obligations. For example, social security, medicare, federal salaries, DoD contracts, all are legal obligations, and if we stop paying them, the govt will get sued for non-payment.

So the debt ceiling vote is leverage but saying “no” is NOT a solution by itself.

We need to tie debt ceiling increase to spending cuts.

“they have already made appropriations”. Who? When? There is no current fiscal 2011 “budget”. Remember, it’s all a continuing resolution.

And Congress can appropriate until the cows come home, that doesn’t bind the executive branch to actually spend it. We know Obama will and more, but it’s not required by law.

I don’t believe federal salaries are required to be paid by law. Or military and others since Obama just said they can’t be guaranteed. Is he breaking the “law”? Then why isn’t he arrested? Impeached? Tried?

Besides, the “law” you think applies is unconstitutional. The Constitution doesn’t require federal pay, or spending on Congressionally passed programs. I know, no one cares about the Constitution any longer. But it’s not illegal to cut spending if the executive branch wants to.

““they have already made appropriations”. Who? When? There is no current fiscal 2011 “budget”. Remember, it’s all a continuing resolution.”

Back when the April deal was made, FY2011 appropriations have been passed into law. Govt is legally obligated until end of Sept to go with that budget. In addition, there are ‘mandatory’ (vs discretionary) funds that ARE indeed legal obligations.

“I don’t believe federal salaries are required to be paid by law.”
Your non-belief doesnt erase budgets authorized by law. I would suppose a fiscal conservative might take notice of your point and use the debt ceiling increase to furlough workers. But we dont have a fiscal conservative do we? He will surely do the most painful things, like stop social security checks, and at the same time keep all the workers fully paid with no real cuts at all.

Whether you like it or not, there are laws requiring executive branch to spend it, and Obama will use those laws as a sheild for his actions.

Just imagine what you would do if you were President and this debt ceiling didnt pass ... then consider the exact opposite of that - Obama will do the latter.

” Or military and others since Obama just said they can’t be guaranteed. Is he breaking the “law”?”

Just as contractual obligations you make to pay your mortgage cant be kept if you run out of money, so too with the federal govt. That’s why they are talking ‘default’. Obama is saying he cant guarantee they will live up to obligations. You can say he’s lying, but he’s president.

“Then why isn’t he arrested? Impeached? Tried?”
There is no criminal act if the President doesnt pay bills he cant pay because the Congress didnt give him the authority to borrow the money to do it.
And it would be ironic for Congress to impeach the President over their own failure to act and raise the debt ceiling to match the FY 2011 deficit created by Congressional budgeting.

“Besides, the “law” you think applies is unconstitutional. The Constitution doesn’t require federal pay, or spending on Congressionally passed programs.”
Just because the Constitution doesnt require something doesnt mean a law requiring it is unconstitutional. That’s for SCOTUS to decide (they probably wont since it is inter-branch issue).

“But it’s not illegal to cut spending if the executive branch wants to.”
And again, nobody will impeach the President for shutting down the govt because we ran out of money. They wont even impeach him if he unnecessarily defaults. Congress is co-equal to blame here.

If the Tea Party folks would stop imagining the debt ceiling = budget authority, they’d realize that the ‘no debt ceiling increase, that’ll stop the spending’ is an untenable and meaningless position. Nope, all it does is create a crisis, and that is the one thing that Obama can use for his political advantage. The real solution is through the budget process. The debt ceiling increase can ONLY be used as a bargaining chip for leverage in that process, it CANNOT be used to legally stop spending. that has been the GOP leadership approach, and they have done a good job, but run into the wall of spendthrift-baloney-non-leadership in Obama. As a bargaining chip, its a great position to go with ‘cut, cap and balance’, but understand that at some point we have to negotiate on something with a Democrat Senate. We need to be firm but not so brittle we break.

McConnell, in his frustration, knows what I just said above it true, and decided on a plan B to put onus on President. Nobody else likes it, I dont like it, its a cave in. But it is recognizing 2 realities - the President has not come up with anything, and we cannot use the debt ceiling to force the President to be fiscally responsible.

In the end a small debt ceiling raise with incremental spending cuts is the most we can get out of this current President. We should go that route. The president objects, but if we at least get something on his desk, it will be on HIM to default.

“The real problem is that this isn’t a crisis. It’s all phoney and I’m tired of the GOP cowards playing in this phoney world.”

I want to add that is agree with you that this is phoney, but want to add that the President cant create his own reality - he can create and foment the crisis and use the media to pin the blame on someone else.

I agree with this analysis:

http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/07/14/moody-markets-convinced-obama-wont-pay-debts-out-of-spite/

“Yes, everyone on Capitol Hill, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and in foreign banks knows that there are no dates on, before or after August 2, 2011 when America will not have the money to pay its bills.

But they also are beginning to suspect that the man responsible for actually writing the checks is willing to precipitate financial disaster on his own country for his political purposes.”

Think Reichstag fire.