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To: daniel1212
You will note that your view is virtually the same as the RCC view.

Your view is the heretical Lordship salvation view and represents a departure from the Reformation view that salvation was simply by faith (trust) in the finished work of Christ which immediately resulted in becoming a new creature in Christ.

Works were never part of the salvation 'process', it was part of the growth process.

342 posted on 07/17/2011 8:33:30 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: fortheDeclaration; JLLH

Re “one is justified by faith alone - that being the instrumental means of procurement - but not by a faith that was alone”

The “was” was an error on my part, and contradicts my statement that faith alone justifies, as being the instrumental means of procurement, and was supposed to read “not by a faith that IS alone,” that is, while to him “that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the unGodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” as “God imputeth righteousness without works,” (Rm. 4:5,6) yet this God-given faith is of a kind that shows itself in works. “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified,” (Rm 2:13) by an effectual faith.

Thus the P in the Calvinistic TULIP holds that the elect are those who Persevere in faith, which is demonstrated in works.

As the Reformers were wont to say, “Justification is by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone.” http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/does-james-teach-salvation-by-works-

Luther wrote: “Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.” (What Luther says, page 1509). - http://vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/by-faith-alone-but-not-by-faith-that-is-alone/

R. C. Sproul (primary Calvinistic authority) states in “Essential Truths of the Christian Faith” (p. 191)

The relationship of faith and good works is one that may be distinguished but never separated...if good works do not follow from our profession of faith, it is a clear indication that we do not possess justifying faith. The Reformed formula is, “We are justified by faith alone but not by a faith that is alone.” http://books.google.com/books?id=DC-TRU4tEvsC&pg=PT211&dq=R.+C.+Sproul+Faith+and+Works&hl=en&ei=cBUkTo6aOuXb0QHH0tC3Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=R.%20C.%20Sproul%20Faith%20and%20Works&f=false

Faith Alone, on page 156, Sproul wrote, “What James is saying is this: If a person says he has faith, but he gives no outward evidence of that faith through righteous works, his faith will not justify him. Martin Luther, John Calvin, or John Knox would absolutely agree with James. We are not saved by a profession of faith or by a claim to faith. That faith has to be genuine before the merit of Christ will be imputed to anybody. You can’t just say you have faith. True faith will absolutely and necessarily yield the fruits of obedience and the works of righteousness. http://effectualgrace.com/2010/11/29/can-paul-and-james-be-reconciled-on-the-matter-of-justification/

John Murray (who died in 1975), a Scottish theologian who spent most of his career at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, states in “Redemption Accomplished and Applied:”

“Faith alone justifies but a justified person with faith alone would be a monstrosity which never exists in the kingdom of grace. Faith works itself out through love (Gal. 5:6). And Faith without works is dead (James 2:17-20).”

“It is living faith that justifies and living faith unites to Christ both in the virtue of his death and in the power of his resurrection. No one has entrusted himself to Christ for deliverance from the guilt of sin who has not also entrusted himself to him for deliverance from the power of sin.” - http://defendingcontending.com/2011/05/18/the-monstrosity-of-a-faith-that-is-alone/

And while a few did and so hold to antinomianism, historically works were emphasized and were manifest to a strong degree as an effect of evangelical faith. And in the past, rather than “easy believism, Puritans were accused of having a tendency to make the way to the cross too narrow, perhaps in reaction against the Antinomian controversy. Nathaniel Ward, step-son to Richard Rogers and a distinguished Puritan preacher himself, is recorded as responding to Thomas Hooker’s sermons on preparation for receiving Christ in conversion, by saying, ‘Mr. Hooker, you make as good Christians before men are in Christ as ever they are after’, and wishing, ‘Would I were but as good a Christian now as you make men while they are preparing for Christ.’ - http://www.the-highway.com/Early_American_Bauckham.html

Dr. John H. Gerstner Ph.D. from Harvard University, professor at Pittsburgh-Xenia theological Seminary for over 30 years, laments,

Romanists have always tried to hang antinomianism on Protestantism. They seem incapable even of understanding “justification is by faith alone, but not by the faith that is alone,” though that formula has been present since the Reformation.

If this were a true charge it would be a fatal one. If Protestantism thought that a sinner could be saved without becoming godly, it would be an absolute, damning lie. His name is “Jesus” for He saves His people from their sins, not in them. And He saves His people not only from the guilt of sin but from its dominating power as well. If a believer is not changed, he is not a believer. No one can have Christ as Savior for one moment when he is not Lord as well. We can never say too often: “Justification is by faith alone, but NOT by the faith that is alone.” Justification is by a WORKING faith.

Dr. Michael Horton, vice chairman of the Council of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, and associate professor of historical theology at Westminster Theological Seminary in California, writes,

“This debate, therefore, is not over the question of whether God renews us and initiates a process of gradual growth in holiness throughout the course of our lives. ‘We are justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone,’ Luther stated, and this recurring affirmation of the new birth and sanctification as necessarily linked to justification leads one to wonder how the caricatures continue to be perpetuated without foundation. For instance, in the magazine published by Catholic Answers, This Rock, Leslie Rumble (April, 1993) makes the astounding claim concerning Luther that the German Reformer denied that a change takes place in the person who is justified. ‘He remains exactly as he was before’ and the believer is never transformed. This demonstrates a remarkable lack of familiarity with the Protestant position. We affirm conversion and the life-long process of growing in sanctifying grace. http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/are_we_justified_by_faith_alone.shtml

On this thread we have Catholics complaining about their faith being misrepresented, which it often is, even by RC themselves, but i hope i have clarified this issue here for you are regards what i meant, which is not a “heretical Lordship salvation view and represents a departure from the Reformation view that salvation was simply by faith (trust).”

The debate between Rm. 4 and Ja 2 and the sense of salvific “merit” Rome’s soteriology” is an extensive one that has been much dealt with her and elsewhere, (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/papalpresumption.html) and i will not expand upon it here, suffice to say that one must come to God as one damned because of his works, and destitute of any means and moral merit by which he escape his just eternal damnation in Hell fire, and gain eternal life with a holy God, and thus must cast all his faith in the mercy of God in Christ, trusting the risen Lord Jesus to save the contrite sinner by His sinless shed blood, with a faith that will effect obedience towards its object, things which accompany salvation.” (Heb. 6:9) And which fruit “justifies” or affirms one as having true faith, but works themselves are not the instrumental means of procuring justification, and cannot earn eternal life,

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

Thanks be to God, to His glory.


371 posted on 07/18/2011 5:41:17 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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