Posted on 10/12/2011 7:31:09 AM PDT by Kaslin
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell.You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us."
C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
C.S. Lewis's famous "trilemma" confronts those who affirm the moral teachings of Christianity while distancing themselves from Christ's more difficult declarations about His deity, man's sinfulness, and the narrowness of the path to salvation. Jesus' famous "Golden Rule," is enthusiastically embraced in postmodern society while his other teachings are widely rejected. Accustomed to defining their own reality, postmodernists pick and choose from Jesus' teachings as if He offered them some kind of spiritual smorgasbord. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is selected as a delicacy, while "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me" is rejected as distasteful.
The tension between benign Christian morality and the exclusivity of the claims of Christ recently came into play when Baptist Preacher Robert Jeffress - by way of expressing his support for Rick Perry's presidential candidacy - asserted that Mitt Romney is not a Christian and that Mormonism is a cult. In an interview with Anderson Cooper, Jeffress clarified his point, explaining that from a theological perspective, Mormonism is considered a cult because it is outside the historical tradition of Christianity, it recognizes a human being (Joseph Smith) and not God as it's founder, and it regards extra-Biblical texts (The Book of Mormon; The Pearl of Great Price) as being on equal footing with Holy Scripture.
For his part, Cooper seemed offended that Jeffress would presume to judge the claims of another when it comes to religious identity. If someone says they are a "Christian," then who is to say otherwise? If the Mormon Church says it is Christian, then that is their truth and no one has a right to refute it.
This gets back to Lewis's "trilemma," and the dissonance that occurs when society affirms Christ's moral teachings, but rejects his other claims. As Lewis points out, Christ did not leave this way open to us. He made very specific assertions about His nature and that of humanity which we either believe or not. Therefore, we cannot all call ourselves "Christian" unless we empty the word of its meaning.
The Nicene Creed is one of the oldest and most widely accepted distillations of what Christians believe:
We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth, of all that is - seen and unseen. We believe in One Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten from the Father. God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one Being with the Father, through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation, He came down from Heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit, He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered death and was buried. On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified. We believe in one holy and catholic apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
This creed incorporates the historic tenets of the Christian faith.
Therefore, when an individual or group holds itself out as "Christian," it is a fair exercise to evaluate how their beliefs align with this historic affirmation. That's true whether Anderson Cooper likes it or not. Does Mormonism fit within the historic definition of Christianity or not? Do Mitt Romney's beliefs conform to what Christians over the centuries have affirmed or not? Does the word "Christian" have objective, propositional meaning or not? If it does, then isn't it fair to test the claims of those who call themselves "Christian" against those beliefs that have historically been associated with that religion?
Of course, we live in a free society and people can identify themselves however they choose, but merely saying something doesn't make it so. I can say I'm the Queen of England if it makes me feel good about myself, but this self-delusion won't carry any weight with those guarding the gates of Buckingham Palace.
Pastor Jeffress real sin in the eyes of Anderson Cooper may be that the Reverend deigned to mix religion with politics in an apparent attempt to create a political advantage. If that was the case, then Mr. Cooper's indignation may have been justified. Article VI of the United States Constitution provides that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." And long before our Constitution came into being, none other than Martin Luther declared, "I would rather be governed by a competent Turk than an incompetent Christian."
That said, the question remains, "Are Mormons Christian?" Since Mormons assert that they are, isn't this a fair subject of public debate? Since religious truth claims have eternal consequences, isn't it in the public interest to examine the merits of those claims? The election of a Mormon president will likely do more than any other single event to mainstream Mormonism into American life, with all of the consequences attendant thereto. That being the case, why should the claims of that religion be any more immune from scrutiny than those of any other religion?
America will be a poorer country when we reach the point where discussions about religion and our eternal destiny can no longer be part of the public dialogue.
The call as to whether my prayers were useless or not.
They certainly didn’t change His plans, they were part of them...plus the added benefit that they made me feel good.
Does your husband read the things you say to others?
Does yours?
???
Okay..fine I dont really care...I am not Mormon, I am Jewish..I was just pointing out you can see it on their website. Technically, by doctrine, they dont teach many of the 10 commandments.
LeGrand: I was there. I don't remember Mormons accusing Christians of being Nazi's or accusing Christians of being complicit in murder or lying to the Mods. I can't know about FReepmails, but I doubt it is true.
TPH: Paragon Defender got the Zot for comparing members to Nazis. Yes, he used that word.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2698309/posts?page=99#99
See also post 104, where he defended what he'd said in post 99.
Got the Zot in post 106.
Tread EZ had been Zotted earlier in the day for the same offense:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2698999/posts?page=101#101
Zotted in post 128.
I agree with you but I suspect most christians dont agree with that.
Acts 15 is an interesting read. The pharisees (of Hillel not Shammai) evidently were wanting Gentiles to convert to Judaism which would require circumsision and the law. James was evidently suggesting that the Gentiles follow the laws of Noah (Gen 9) which are binding for all mankind to this day. Laws of Noah
James Said: Instead we should write to them, telling them to (1)abstain from food polluted by idols, (2)from sexual immorality,(3) from the meat of strangled animals and (4)from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
James lists 4. Genesis 9, lists 6 or 7 depending on how you count them.
Interesting that Christians dont mind eating blood which is forbbiden. You would think those 4 would be easy!
Most of your brethren I think disagree with you and would say the ten commandment count for Christians.
Other Christians say there are 1050 commandments in the NT...others 684...
So Elsie- How many commandments ARE Christians supposed to follow? 2? 4? 7? 10? 684? 1050? You guys are a jumbled mess.
I KNOW they don’t!
I thought I posted that?
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Let's say 1, or 2, or 3, or 10, or 613, or 999 or even zero.The ONLY one that we can be sure that humans will follow is the LAST figure!
What did Jesus say to the Rich Young Ruler?
What did Paul say about breaking the LEAST of them?
What did Jesus say to folks who claimed to have followed the ten? But you guys THOUGHT about breaking them...
Mark 10:17-31
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 5:28
Well, first of all, I'd say that God doesn't create "non-Christians" -- he creates people, period, and endows them with free will. And some of those people choose not to believe in Him.
So your question becomes, Why does He bother to create the people He knows will choose not to believe in Him?
One reason is that even those non-believers have roles to play in the history of the world.
Another reason is that some of the non-believers' descendants will be believers. And God is not willing to cancel the lives of the descendants who will be believers simply because some of their ancestors will reject Him.
Oh so you are saying James was wrong? BTW, do you eat your steak rare? James clearly says you have to do those 4. He had 4 commandments. Jesus has 1? other Christians list hundreds...
About what?
Medium rare.
Unlike those good Temple MORMONs who do NOT get to even eat meat at ALL during warm weather!
I cannot speak for others:
Joshua 24:14-15“Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD.
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living.
But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”
That certainly makes sense, although not very good for those Non-Christians that He knows don’t have a chance of going to heaven.
At first you quote James. James spells out 4 things the Gentiles must do.
So, when I ask you about all the other commandments in the NT, you quote Jesus saying...."just believe in the one he has sent"...so, zero commandments.
So are you saying James is in error? What if one of those Gentiles, believes in Jesus...the one that was sent...but continues to eat his steak bloody....or eats meat from a strangled animal. Is that a problem?
If it is a problem then the NT commandments do matter. If it doesnt matter, then Christianity (according to you) would be antinomian and there are no commandments. And if Chritianity is antinomian, why does James list his 4 commadments and Paul has his own lists of things you can NOT do?
One of my favorite passages. I dont suppose you realize that was written by and for, Jews. Israel. And that when Yehoshua, Joshua wrote the LORD, he did not mean the god-man hybrid Jesus. Joshua would have NEVER accepted a hybrid god-man savior....
Ah...
But they DO 'have a chance'!!
HE merely knows that they will NOT make the choice.
A lot of Jews have.
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