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Birthers say Marco Rubio is not eligible to be president
St. Petersburg Times ^ | October 20, 2011 | Alex Leary

Posted on 10/20/2011 1:47:23 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: DiogenesLamp; InterceptPoint

If the U.S. Congress had never passed any laws regarding U.S. citizenship at birth, you could well be correct, since it is certainly arguable that, at common law (which applies when there are no statutes on point), citizens at birth (i.e., natural-born citizens) were limited to persons who both were born within the geographic territory of the nation and had parents who were citizens of the nation. The unanimous opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), makes this point, although it doesn’t answer with certainty (because it was unnecessary for the adjudication of the case before the Court) whether both conditions were necessary for natural-born citizenship under common law: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.” http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=88&page=162 “Natural-born” is used by the Court in contradistinction to “naturalized,” and the first means someone who us a citizen at birth, while the latter means someone who becomes a citizen later in life.

Of course, Congress *has* legislated regarding citizenship at birth, and did so as early as 1790, as the Happersett Court noted: “Congress, as early as 1790, provided that ... the children of citizens of the United States that might be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, should be considered as natural-born citizens.” And Happersett went on to note that in 1855 this conferrance of birthright citizenship to the foreign-born children of U.S. citizens “was somewhat extended, and all persons theretofore born or thereafter to be born out of the limits of the jurisdiction of the United States, whose fathers were, or should be at the time of their birth, citizens of the United States, were declared to be citizens also.” When Congress passes a law, such statute supercedes the common law on that particular matter, and, as the Supreme Court noted in Happersett, one does not need to wonder whether the foreign-born children of U.S. citizens would be natural-born citizens at common law, because a congressional statute specifies when such children would be considered U.S. citizens at birth. Today, of course, the U.S.-citizen parent(s) of foreign-born children must meet certain residency requirements for their foreign-born children to be deemd natural-born citizens.

Regarding children born in America to non-citizen parents, Congress legislated specifically to confer U.S. citizenship at birth to such children so long as they are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States; this statutory language tracks that of the first sentence of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment, and is currently codified in 8 U.S.C.S. 1401(a), and has remained unchanged since at least 1952 (and I believe the predecessor of the 1952 statute had identical language with respect to this clause). Now, reasonable minds may disagree on whether the children of illegal aliens should be covered by this clase, since “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” implies that the person is legally within the jurisdiction, and I believe that the courts have been incorrect in interpreting both this statute and the 14th Amendment as conferring birthright citizenship on the U.S.-born children of illegal aliens, tourists and other persons who were neither U.S. citizens not permanent residents of the U.S. But it is incontrovertible that permanent residents of the U.S. are subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., and thus that their children are U.S. citizens at birth.

So, to sum up, given that the term “natural-born citizen” is synonymous with “citizen at birth” or “birthright citizen,” and the fact that congressional statutes supercede the common law, all persons who are U.S. citizens at birth pursuant to U.S. law are natural-born citizens of the United States. Thus, George Romney (Mitt’s father, who was born in Mexico to two U.S. citizens and who uncontroversially ran for president in 1968) and Chester Arthur (who was elected vice president in 1880 and became president upon the death of James Garfield in 1881 despite his father not having been a U.S. citizen when his son was born) were natural-born citizens of the United States and eligible for the presidency. And the same is true for John McCain and Marco Rubio (and, assuming that he was born in Hawaii, Barack Obama).


121 posted on 10/21/2011 10:24:47 AM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Nice Screenname Mr. Goldwater. But I disagree.

Minor v. Happersett 88 U.S. 162 states clearly what a Natural Born Citizen is. A person born in the United States to parentS who were its citizens. Plural. This means quite simply, you have to be born here and have two parents who are citizens. Minor has not been over ruled, and there is no law which has been written which changes this definition.

Your argument is nicely said and well reasoned, but still incorrect.

Obama, McCain, Jindal, Rubio all fail this definition.

122 posted on 10/21/2011 10:34:29 AM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: nickcarraway

So?

My grandmother was born in Canada, my grandfather in England. Both were not natural born citizens. They became naturalized in 1941. What is the point of that particular observation?


123 posted on 10/21/2011 10:44:04 AM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: WildWeasel

BOTH parents must also be citizens along with birth here in order to be eligible for POTUS. That comes directly from the LAW, Minor v. Happersett 88 US 162.


124 posted on 10/21/2011 10:47:24 AM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: Reaganez

False.

He is not a Natural Born Citizen according to th eonly law in effect which defines it. Monor v. Happersett 88 US 162.

His parents were not citizens at the time of his birth, he is a dual citizen jsut like Obama. God bless him he is a great conservative and leader, but he is NOT qualified to run for POTUS. He never will be unless a new law is written enabeling it. NO MORE ILLEGAL PRESIDENTS! PERIOD.


125 posted on 10/21/2011 10:50:35 AM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: AuH2ORepublican

Well done.


126 posted on 10/21/2011 10:53:53 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: Danae

According to these people you can’t be president.


127 posted on 10/21/2011 1:45:17 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

LOL Both my parents are Natural Born Citizens. As am I, and yeah, I was born in Hawaii.


128 posted on 10/21/2011 1:52:05 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: DiogenesLamp
Actually, if you knew history and read the leading landmark case, Wong Kim Ark v. US, you would know that the founders used English common law when using the term, natural born citizen, in the Constitution. Blackstone and English common law was the primary basis American jurisprudence.

Your response is an excellent illustration of why birthers have fallen flat on their face in Congress, every state legislature and court (federal or state)in their feeble quest to change the law. Maybe if birthers respected the rule of law in our society, they may be a little bit more successful.

129 posted on 10/21/2011 2:24:04 PM PDT by ydoucare
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To: DiogenesLamp
Chief Justice Roberts reversed two words at the inaugural, so the next day he went the White House to do a second swearing in. This was done so there will never be a doubt or question as to Obama being legally President.

Every appeal, over a dozen, to SCOTUS has been unanimously denied. Obama has never even bothered to file a single response to a petition filed by a birther. SCOTUS rules are that if one justice thinks a petition has any merit and the respondent has not filed a response to the petition, the court will formally request a response before determining whether to grant writ. That has never occured. I wonder why?

130 posted on 10/21/2011 2:39:11 PM PDT by ydoucare
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To: David Isaac

Since when is it “rigid” to follow the law.

I might suggest that the IRS is “rigid” in their enforcement.

What really pisses me off beyond the pale, is that we have become a people who look at laws as if they are convenient. When they are not convenient, we just ignore them.

The real problem here is that the Supreme court needs to rule on this, clearly. They beat around the bush too much.

Is it too hard for us to expect the people we place in power to actually do their job?


131 posted on 10/21/2011 2:47:26 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just don't like anything about the President. And I don't think he's a nice guy.)
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To: CodeToad
It was simply a term used to describe someone that wa sa citizen by birth, nothing complex or complicated about it.

That is a common body of thought, but I don't believe it to be an accurate one. I believe the term "natural born citizen" is a "term of art" known to people familiar with international law in 1787, which mostly amounts to the writings of Grotius, Puffendorf and Vattel.

John Jay, who was raised speaking French, could be said to be the Father of the Article II requirement, and his usage of the term implies that it is intended to exclude all foreign influence. Since the founding era, we have created the situation where foreigners can claim "born" citizenship for their children, while possessing no loyalty to the country whatsoever. In addition, we have created these "half and halfs" which would never occur under the circumstances with which the founders were familiar.

Both these "anchor babies" and these "half and halfs" are considered "born citizens" under the current legal misinterpretation of the 14th amendment, but they most certainly do not represent the same sort of allegiance as that which would be expected of a "natural citizen."

132 posted on 10/21/2011 2:48:10 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama is an "unnatural born citizen.")
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To: Danae
No, the Opinion of the Court in Happersett states, as dicta, that under common law a natural-born citizen (which the Court defines as a citizen at birth, in contradistinction to a naturalized citizen) encompasses at a minumum those persons born within the nation's territory both of whose parents are citizens of the nation. The opinion notes that some authorities claimed that the common-law definition of natural-born citizen is actually broader than the narrow definition set forth above, but the Court found it unnecessary to decide whether other persons would be deemed to be natural-born citizens under common law because the petitioner was born in the U.S. with two U.S.-citizen parents ("[f]or the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts"). And the Opinion of the Court in Happesett further states that the foreign-born children of two U.S. citizens are natural-born citizens of the U.S. since Congress passed a law in 1790 declaring that to be the case. This should surprise no one, given that the common law is preempted whenever Congress enacts a specific statute. I know that Happesett has been used by some as "evidence" that only the U.S.-born children of two U.S. citizens are natural-born citizens of the U.S., but, in fact, the opinion proves the opposite to be the case.
133 posted on 10/21/2011 2:49:00 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
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To: AuH2ORepublican

at a minumum = at a minimum


134 posted on 10/21/2011 2:52:06 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Sorry my friend, but the Dicta is NOT the decision. It is an opinion.

You cannot quote dicta as a decision, they are NOT the same. I quote from the HOLDING. That is the legally binding part of the case, and is in fact the law. The HOLDING in Minor states that it takes being born in the United States to parentS who are its CitizneS.

That is the LAW. The Dicta is an authoritative opinion and nothing else. It does not bind, it is not law.

135 posted on 10/21/2011 2:54:51 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Today, of course, the U.S.-citizen parent(s) of foreign-born children must meet certain residency requirements for their foreign-born children to be deemed natural-born citizens.

Yes, under that very statute you cite, (the naturalization act of 1790) the Children of Non Resident Foreign fathers are forbidden by congress from receiving any sort of US Citizenship.

You have made my point for me. It was the intent of the First Congress, many of whom were delegates to the Constitutional convention and who ought to know what was meant by "natural born citizen", to agree that a non resident foreign father prevents even basic US citizenship for his offspring. That is the same status Obama possesses. Were it not for the "Cable act of 1924", and the "Women's Rights act of 1934, he wouldn't even possess basic citizenship. That he is a citizen at all was due to the fact of statutes passed by congress.

This half and half citizenship cannot be regarded as "natural", for it didn't exist until after 1924.

136 posted on 10/21/2011 2:58:22 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama is an "unnatural born citizen.")
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To: Danae

Rubio was born in the U.S.


137 posted on 10/21/2011 2:59:26 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

That makes him a Citizen. Not a natural Born citizen. Thats the law according to Minor v Happersett which is STILL the law of the land.


138 posted on 10/21/2011 3:08:05 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: Kleon

I think it’s amusing that this is the sort of thing that keeps birthers up at night.

I would use a different word than amusing since the elected citizens who swear on the Constitution do not uphold it . Seems to me these “ Birthers “ could find plenty to do with the elected “ Citizen “ law breakers who stand there and lie to them and on the Bible also but seem to ignore the obvious .


139 posted on 10/21/2011 3:11:55 PM PDT by Ben Bolt
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To: woofie

No. He’s not President and never will be. Just as the second and following marriages of a bigamist are never legit, even after he dies all all his wives die.

There is no correction.


140 posted on 10/21/2011 3:20:01 PM PDT by bvw
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