To: FReepers; everyone; All
Posted on 10/27/2011 6:28:25 AM PDT by Kaslin
Despite the recent chatter about a flat income tax -- a tax that every income earner pays regardless of their level of income -- the idea is dead unless its supporters figure out a way to get together and support the idea that a flat tax is a fair tax. I believe we can unite.
In a system of flat taxation there is only one level of taxation. Everybody pays the same rate no matter how much money they earn. Taxpayers are not punished for having succeeded by being taxed at rates higher than that paid by the lowest earners of income.
It's not a new idea. My dad was a supporter of the flat tax proposal, but he recognized the problems inherent in passing it into law.
One problem has to do with uncertainty and political opportunism. There's an old adage that decrees that only two things in life are certain: death and taxes. And just as likely is the fact that any proposal to change the tax code -- even change for the better -- is bound to create uncertainty as people examine proposals in light of their own finances. This creates a wedge for Democrats to use against us.
Democrats and the liberal media are now trying to turn uncertainty into chaos as they highlight every situation that might affect somebody in some obscure way as the result of the various Republican proposals. But we should not lose sight of the fact that their agenda has nothing to do with fairness, and has everything to do with punishing Americans for the “crimes” of earning money, providing jobs, and not wanting to be dependent on the state.
As my dad saw it, the entire federal tax system needed to be revised. I agree that’s still the case. But there is work to be done, and we must not allow ourselves to feed the liberal narrative that Republicans will be unable to unite behind a candidate or a tax plan.
One place to start is to reconcile the Flat Taxers and the Fair Taxers, those who support some sort of national sales tax as in Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan. If neither side will support the other, we will be exactly where the IRS and the administration want us to be -- split on an important issue. If we don’t come together on this issue Washington and the IRS can sit back and laugh, and keep their hands in our pockets. And they’ll be laughing at us.
Just remember that a flat tax is a fair tax. Nobody gets penalized for earning more than the average wage earner. No matter how much money one earns, one pays the same rate of taxation everybody else pays. That doesn't mean they pay the same amount of taxes everybody else pays -- merely that they pay the same percentage of their income everybody else pays. Nobody gets punished for making more than the average wage earner.
Unfortunately, there is a segment of our population that recoils in horror at the sight of somebody who, by dint of their efforts, earns more than the average worker or even aspires to do so. Democrats believe that people must be penalized for their success by being forced to pay ever-increasing taxes. In their eyes, success breeds contempt.
This is the group that opposes a flat tax, and they must be defeated in 2012. I have no doubt that Republicans can unite to make sure that happens.
Wait till people look at what a flat tax will do to their pet deductions!
The Progressive Income Tax system currently in place taxes the working poor at 10% (See: almost any young fellow with a job) and taxes folks in the top 400 income earners in the nation at 7% (See: Warren Buffett).
The rich hire tax accountants and lawyers to evade every provision of law. That will not change.
What we need is a system of taxation that does not give the advantage of evasion to anyone, and that's got to be something other than an income tax scheme.
Women, children and minorities hurt most! And the rich get richer!
Dear Michael.
The issue isn’t flat, or 999, or collecting at gunpoint.
The issue is whether whatever plan or method does it take less of my money, the same amount of my money, or more of my money.
When it take MORE of my money, then it has always, until recent conservatives have become infected with cephalorectus, been called a TAX INCREASE.
If any plan takes more of MY money, then it is a tax increase.
I don’t care who advocates it: Obama, Cain, Perry, Romney, whoever....if the plan takes MORE of my money, then it’s a TAX INCREASE.
These conservatives need to buy a flippin’ clue.
Congress and the Senate don’t really want a flat tax. They love giving tax breaks to those who give them oodles and oodles of money.
Does the Flat Tax apply to capital gains?
I always thought I was very conservative but I have to question myself now. Considering a 10% flat tax. Family A earns $40,000 per year and would have to pay $4,000 tax leaving $36,000 to live on. Family B earns $300,000 and pays $30,000 to live on leaving $270,000 to live on. All deductions are now gone so Family B no longer has to contribute to charity. I can only see disaster from this plan.
The issue is spending, not the method of collection.
When the country is running deficits of $1.5 trillion for as far as the eye can see, and some politician is talking about changing the tax system to make it "fairer" or "simpler" or whatever, alarms go off in my head.
First, balance the budget. Then we can talk about changing the tax code -- if people are still interested.
Hmmmm. What do you have in mind?
Both Perry’s and Cain’s plan include charitable deductions.
Perry’s includes Mortgage Interest and State/Local Taxes.
http://www.rickperry.org/cut-balance-and-grow-html/#fix-tax-code
http://www.hermancain.com/docs/999-for-web-10-12.pdf
Perry’s plan eliminates tax on qualified dividends and long term capital gains.
http://www.rickperry.org/cut-balance-and-grow-html/#fix-tax-code
It’s probably less then that. You are forgetting the property taxes the family has to pay on their home. And with only making $40,000per year, I doubt that they can itemize. They question is will they be able to take the standard deduction.
Also note that Pery’s plan includes a $12,500 deduction per dependent.
A family of 4 making $50,000 would pay no tax at all, regardless of other deductions.
Are business expenses still deductible with a flat tax?
Same here, you don’t drop half a billion on a company going TU, and then have the gall to ask me for more cash.
I’m not going to give it to you anyway, but that’s not really the point. The point is they have plenty of money at the fed to run their programs 3 times over.
A half billion is about 1/1600th of the entire stimulus. That means they had only 1599 things left to spend money on after they squandered that half billion. In a nation of 300 million, that’s a paltry outreach.
Better to have unleashed the market instead of trying to force or forecast winners and losers. Get rid of the regulations, get rid of the taxes, and give businesses a chance to expand.
And it’s always gonna be some kid in a garage with a wild new idea who’s gonna end up creating billions of dollars of new wealth and employing hundreds of thousands.
He is exactly the guy that will never get chosen by the brilliant minds who think they can pick winners and losers.
It’s like the old Soviet trying to decide how many pairs of shoes to manufacture. They never could figure it out.
You know that is baloney. Buffett's claim is based on having little earned income. His income in primarily capital gains. If he actually earned the income, he would be getting nailed with the higher income tax brackets. It is certainly true that having a bunch of savvy tax lawyers can save a bundle. Most people don't make enough money to pay lawyers at that level. The lawyers would cost more than the "savings". BTW, Buffett isn't "evading". He is "avoiding". There is a BIG difference in the two.
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