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Gingrich: Poor kids have bad work habits ‘unless it’s illegal’
The Hill ^ | Dec. 1, 2011 | Jonathan Easley

Posted on 12/01/2011 2:14:08 PM PST by fightinJAG

GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich said Thursday that “really poor children” have bad work habits and no knowledge of how to make an income “unless it’s illegal.”

Doubling down on his argument that children in poor neighborhoods should be employed as janitors in schools, Gingrich argued that the best way to teach children in poor neighborhoods good working habits is to put them to work as soon as possible.

“Start with the following two facts,” Gingrich said Thursday at a campaign stop in Iowa.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gingrich; newt

1 posted on 12/01/2011 2:14:11 PM PST by fightinJAG
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To: fightinJAG

Why does anyone take this crazy guy seriously?

Kids should clean the school, all of them and without pay. IMO.

President has nothing to do with that either.


2 posted on 12/01/2011 2:17:18 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: fightinJAG

If I were a teenager, I would never want to clean up after my peers, and I don’t want my children to do so either.

There are enough rotten, bullying teenagers in my upscale suburb who would love to make the student-janitor’s life pure hell, and there were when I was growing up too. I shudder to think what they would have done to the bathrooms, but there is scope for nastiness just about everywhere.


3 posted on 12/01/2011 2:19:25 PM PST by heartwood
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To: fightinJAG

When I was a kid I was a part-time janitor. I loved the job. This is not a new idea.


4 posted on 12/01/2011 2:20:09 PM PST by HIDEK6
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To: fightinJAG

Yes, the big government solution, put them on the government payroll. Where they get paid for not working, how is that different from not working and getting welfare. Oh, I know, 5 cents an hour. Newt is probably all for 120% loans for the same people to buy 250,000 homes. That you pay for.


5 posted on 12/01/2011 2:21:40 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: fightinJAG

Yes, the big government solution, put them on the government payroll. Where they get paid for not working, how is that different from not working and getting welfare. Oh, I know, 5 cents an hour. Newt is probably all for 120% loans for the same people to buy$ 250,000 homes. That you pay for.


6 posted on 12/01/2011 2:22:30 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: fightinJAG
Is this ping-pong?

It seems like last week an objective observer would have said that Gingrich was, in part at least, attempting to pander (or "reach out") to the Latino community with his "path to legality" proposal.

Now he's got some ideas on poor Hispanic kids that, regardless, he expresses in a way that an objective observer might say would be viewed as a little harsh by the Latino community.

But then again we have Gingrich taking private Spanish lessons with a tutor every Sunday, while at the same time terming Spanish the "language of the ghetto."

He certainly has a way with words!

7 posted on 12/01/2011 2:22:43 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: fightinJAG
How elitist.

Poor kids should learn to be janitors while rich kids get an education and participate in extracurricular activities or leisure time?

I have worked with people from all sorts of backgrounds.

Poor kids usually have a good work ethic because if they wanted any money THEY HAD TO WORK FOR IT.

Rich kids grow up lazy and entitled as often as not.

8 posted on 12/01/2011 2:22:56 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: HIDEK6

Were you a janitor at your school and were these jobs offered to you because you were a “poor” minority?


9 posted on 12/01/2011 2:24:29 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: allmendream

And holding a sign at occupy. You are correct.


10 posted on 12/01/2011 2:25:33 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: allmendream

Yes, there’s a lot about this proposal that is not thought through.

It makes me wonder if Gingrich’s internals are showing a backlash in Iowa against his “path to legality” for illegals, so on the stump out there he’s trying to come up with something, anything to sound as though, what, he’s tough on poor school kids?


11 posted on 12/01/2011 2:28:14 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: fightinJAG

I was a janitor at the grade school. I was in high school, and the job was eagerly sought. You had to be a good student to get it.


12 posted on 12/01/2011 2:29:09 PM PST by HIDEK6
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To: fightinJAG

I was working my first paid job at TWELVE.
I was working part-time, full time during the summer, from 14 on.

It taught me a HELL of a lot. Like the fact that NOTHING comes free, or easy.


13 posted on 12/01/2011 2:29:18 PM PST by tcrlaf (Election 2012: THE RAPTURE OF THE DEMOCRATS)
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To: fightinJAG

In Japan kids clean thier own schools. It is the job of the fourth graders to teach the first graders how to clean. The kids also bring rice and fish from home and prepare the meals. They clean up the kitchen and the end of the meal. I knew a Japanese woman with a kid in an American school. The Japanese mother was shocked when she learned that American kids don’t clean their own school. By the way, calculus is a mandatory class for all Japanese high school studednts.


14 posted on 12/01/2011 2:31:32 PM PST by forgotten man (forgotten man)
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To: HIDEK6
You had to be a good student to get it.

This is key, and a key difference, I think.

When something -- ANYTHING, really -- is obtainable only on the merits (you were selected for this particular job only if you were a good student), then it is considered an honor and an accomplishment.

When you are given or forced to do a job because you are a member of a poor minority class, it won't have the same result -- for the individual, his peers or the school or society as a whole.

15 posted on 12/01/2011 2:32:46 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: GeronL
Doubling down on his argument that children in poor neighborhoods should be employed as janitors in schools, Gingrich argued that the best way to teach children in poor neighborhoods good working habits is to put them to work as soon as possible.

As you said, the President is involved in this why? How?

This reminded me of Bill Clinton spending time in a State of the Union speech talking about -- good grief -- SCHOOL UNIFORMS.

I'm beginning to think we've completely lost the notion of what the Presidency is supposed to be.

16 posted on 12/01/2011 2:36:15 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: fightinJAG

He’s talking about kids who are little more than gang fodder.


17 posted on 12/01/2011 2:36:52 PM PST by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: fightinJAG
Oh boy! Morning Joe is going to be fun tomorrow morning. This is guaranteed to make liberals' heads explode.

How dare Newt Gingrich tell the truth about the entitlement class and the ghetto society? This is worse than when he said the children need to learn English; they need to learn the language of success not failure.

LOL!!!
18 posted on 12/01/2011 2:38:23 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: forgotten man

That sounds great.

But I don’t think it’s what Gingrich is talking about here.

If he is, that would be interesting.


19 posted on 12/01/2011 2:39:05 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: allmendream
How elitist.

Yes it is. I'm surprised that Newt didn't suggest that those poor folks simply apply for historian jobs with Freddie Mac, just like he did. After all, there is big money to be made there.

But maybe the poor folks are too lazy to fill out the historian application form.

20 posted on 12/01/2011 2:40:56 PM PST by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: forgotten man

We aren’t Japanese, and never will be like them. If you tried that here, the backlash would be massive.


21 posted on 12/01/2011 2:42:15 PM PST by EEGator
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To: Leaning Right

Maybe Newt should also expound upon his “date your High School Math teacher for fun and profit” plan!

You know, for kids!


22 posted on 12/01/2011 2:44:18 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: GeronL; org.whodat; heartwood
He's addressing an ingrained societal plague. We have whole areas of our cities where the concept of work and earning a living are alien.

He's addressing places like the city of New Orleans where there were people who lived for generations on the public dole; where mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and uncle and aunt and all the cousins are all drawing public assistance and the only people making money are drug dealers and prostitutes. Why do you think it has been called "The Big Easy?" because you only had to work if you wanted to--life was easy.

This is far from crazy, this is someone who is trying to end the cycle of poverty by introducing a foreign substance--work.

If you can teach these children the lessons of the work ethic at an early age, you might actually stand a chance of ending that cycle. It's an expansion of the "Workfare" program that was so successful in ending welfare back in the 90's.
23 posted on 12/01/2011 2:51:23 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: forgotten man
In Japan kids clean thier own schools....

It's the same in South Korea. All tke kids, even in highschool, have to clean their classrooms and hallways regularly. They weren't paid for it, either and neither the poor kids or the rich, smart kids were singled out to do the job.

24 posted on 12/01/2011 2:51:48 PM PST by Tamar1973 ("Never care what the other guy has, it is not yours and someone always has more."--isthisnickcool)
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To: EEGator
We aren’t Japanese, and never will be like them. If you tried that here, the backlash would be massive.

You're probably right on both counts (cleaning classrooms and required calculus) but that's why the Japanese and Koreans still have a work ethic and we don't.

The only person a Japanese or Korean person can expect to do anything for them is their momma, who cleans their clothes, makes their meals and kicks their a$$ if they get less than an A in any of their classes.

25 posted on 12/01/2011 2:55:04 PM PST by Tamar1973 ("Never care what the other guy has, it is not yours and someone always has more."--isthisnickcool)
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To: Sudetenland
"We have whole areas of our cities where the concept of work and earning a living are alien."

Yep and one of the worst areas in the Nation where such is so is the area in and around Pennsylvania Ave. and East Capitol Street, NE and 1st Street NE. in Washington D.C.

26 posted on 12/01/2011 2:57:35 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: GeronL

Talk about miss representing what he said, this is intellectually dishonest. Good god, this place is becoming more like du everyday.

All,

Go watch the video for your self, don’t let these sleazy FR posters direct the conversation.


27 posted on 12/01/2011 2:58:40 PM PST by JoSixChip (Top 10% of wage earners pay 70% of total income taxes collected. Bottom 50% pay less then 3%, fair?)
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To: HIDEK6

Yeah school janitors make big bucks for little effort nowadays as the schools hire cleaning services to handle the dirty work. I’ve done some jobs in schools where there would be up to a dozen janitors hanging out in the boiler room where they would sleep, play cards, and watch tv all day then go home. All were making $60k+ salaries supplemented with heavy overtime during the snow season.


28 posted on 12/01/2011 3:00:58 PM PST by Teflonic
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To: Tamar1973

Seems they might be too pressured, as they are both in the top 5 for suicide rates in the world.


29 posted on 12/01/2011 3:03:44 PM PST by EEGator
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To: allmendream

Snort!


30 posted on 12/01/2011 3:11:49 PM PST by Yehuda (Expel communists and jihadis... from the planet.)
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To: Sudetenland
ROFLOL, there has never been a government welfare program that was successful. My god, clintoon moved people off welfare to disability. Dang, you like that big government stuff. The one program this country had that turned a lot of bad kids into good ones was the draft. And today no one wants any part of it. Spend more money, spend more money. Like newts stupid amnesty program, let local committee made the decision. The first thing the commission would decided would be is how long they had to work to retirement and where would they hold their first convention. And how many million new government employee's and building world be need so they could get their next twenty year budget together.
31 posted on 12/01/2011 3:14:28 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: org.whodat

Okay, Mr. ROFLOL, tell all of us poor unenlightened souls what your solution to the entrenched entitlement mentality is. You don’t seem concerned that these kids are without any examples in their lives of a person who actually has to work for a living . . . provide us all with an alternative.


32 posted on 12/01/2011 3:22:38 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: tcrlaf

I was passing papers at 10, fifteen hours a week. Working ever since. The biggest thing for me was the independence it gave me, no waiting for a hand out from dad. Teach these kids responsibility and independence while you still have a chance. This beats shelling out 40 grand a year to incarcerate them for much of their adult life. Who knows maybe the kids could explain WORK to their lay about parents and grandparents.


33 posted on 12/01/2011 3:28:25 PM PST by Tail Gunner John
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To: Sudetenland

I already did the program that worked was the draft. And it was not a new big government solution.


34 posted on 12/01/2011 3:28:42 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: HIDEK6

Each of us 6 kids worked in the school cafeteria after lunch, mopped, washed dishes, took out trash. Mom and Dad couldn’t afford to pay all the tuition to parochial school so we kids worked at the school, and took summer jobs to help. We didn’t think a thing of it. I agree that many poor kids have a better work ethic, but certainly not all. Those who have things just handed to them will never learn. But, it’s the same for the spoiled, rich kids. Learning to work in this day and age...well, it must be difficult. I guess the military helps us out there.


35 posted on 12/01/2011 3:29:14 PM PST by CH3CN (A stitch in time is worth two in the bush.)
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To: Sudetenland

The thing you got to remember is that people are generally rational actors in the marketplace, as in Locke, Adam Smith, etc. Welfare queens/daddies are acting rationally in taking advantage of what the system offers them. And if that means taking in food stamps, wic, section 8, social security, etc, that’s what they’ll do. They will spending part of their time working the system, and part of it doing odd jobs, preferably illegal (pays better), off the books. That’s an adaptation.

Point being, if you want them out of that you have to offer them something better. Working at a menial job for menial wages with no real hope of anything better, at little or no extra money over welfare, who’s going to do that?


36 posted on 12/01/2011 3:32:42 PM PST by ichabod1 (Vote for Herman Cain 2012!)
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To: Yehuda
And if a million more agree
There ain't no Great Society
As it applies to you and me
Our country isn't free
And the law refuses to see
If all that you can ever be
Is just a LOUSY JANITOR
Unless your uncle owns a store
You know that five in every four
Just won't amount to nothin’ more
Than watch the rats go across the floor
And make up songs about being poor

Frank Zappa - Trouble every day

37 posted on 12/01/2011 3:32:49 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: fightinJAG
* sigh *

I heave a big sigh a lot of the time when I see Newt on television. Even when he has a valid point, as he does here, he manages to express it in a way that makes it easy for his opponents to attack him.

So, * sigh *

... Remembering that old '90s book ...


38 posted on 12/01/2011 3:33:48 PM PST by x
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To: org.whodat
LOL!!! So you're going to double or treble the size of the military, but somehow that is "not a new big government solution?" You're going to draft 12 year-olds?

What pray tell are you going to do with all of those newly minted soldiers? How are you going to convince a majority of Congress to do what they have steadfastly refused to do for more than 30 years? How are you going to convince the military that a new huge draft will be advantageous and superior to the all volunteer military we now have? You think having all of those folks serving involuntarily will be a net positive on our military readiness? You think it will be good for moral to have all of those folks in the military?

The draft almost destroyed our military in the 60's and 70's by filling the army with unmotivated, unwilling people. Morale at the end of the draft was in the cellar, as was our nation in general.
39 posted on 12/01/2011 3:36:57 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Sudetenland

Make work pay, and people will work. It’s really that simple. Newt’s reverse-class-warfare mentality is starting to rear its pathetic head in public. It was just a matter of time, really.

Maybe we can get a genuinely conservative 3rd party after Newt finishes burning what’s left of the GOP to the ground.

Whig on, Newton! Whig on!


40 posted on 12/01/2011 3:45:18 PM PST by CowboyJay (Generic Republican - 2012. He's the only 'electable' candidate.)
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To: ichabod1
Sooo . . . what? We just give up, keep paying them to be poor and unemployed?

Stop paying them anything and watch the MSM showing endless films of long soup kitchen lines and talking about how heartless it is . . . if I'm not mistaken, that is precisely what eventually led to welfare under our socialist presidents.

Not trying to be smarmy here with you (unlike some others), just looking at what I believe to be one reasonable/viable alternative as proposed by Newt and asking for a reasonable/viable alternative that has some likelihood of actually becoming law.

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act has generally been considered the first really successful reform of any "Great Society" programs and the fight for it was led by Kemp, Gingrich, Lott, et al.
41 posted on 12/01/2011 3:49:21 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: CowboyJay
I think you have no idea what you are talking about if you believe that people will automatically work if the pay is sufficient. You seem to be speaking from a insular middle-class mentality, but the folks of whom Newt is speaking are so alienated from that attitude that I doubt what you suggest would motivate them.

We believe in work, because that is the environment in which we were all raised. These kids have been raised for generations in an environment in which work is an alien concept. They still believe that they are owed their living expenses. They have all been told that for so long that it has become their "work ethic."
42 posted on 12/01/2011 3:54:38 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: JoSixChip
Go watch the video for your self, don’t let these sleazy FR posters direct the conversation.

WTF do you think you're doing, posting drivel like that? You know very well how this Site works.

If people take time to read linked articles, or watch the videos, they can't get their Tweet reply in before all the other Post'N'Go Freepers abandon the thread.

There's a reason my posts usually end up as Tail End Charlie

43 posted on 12/01/2011 5:11:29 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946...and thankful for it!)
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To: x

I’d forgotten that one!

*Sigh.*


44 posted on 12/01/2011 5:37:25 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: org.whodat

Also the people who moved off welfare to work often went to jobs the federal government subsidized anyway — as in, Fedzilla will pay you a bonus if you hire someone who has been on welfare within the last six months!

That’s why it’s so hard to get a job at Wal-Mart. They say on their website that welfare alumni don’t get “preference,” they just want to know your welfare status . . . so if they hire you, they can get their federal subsidy.


45 posted on 12/01/2011 5:42:59 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: CowboyJay

Benjamin Franklin approached it from the other angle: make being poor not very comfortable.

Such as: you don’t get a free cellphone or get to use your EBT card (electronic benefit card a/k/a foodstamps) at Taco Bell and the Dollar Store.


46 posted on 12/01/2011 5:50:18 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: fightinJAG

Whatever. You’re preaching to the choir here on entitlements.

But all Newt managed to do is come off sounding exactly like the sterotypical upper-crust cracker the MSM would like to paint all GOPers as. With real unemployment levels at 20%, blaming the poor and the unemployed in an attempt to divert attention from deep structural problems in the US economy may play to certain segments of the GOP, but he will get destroyed in the general election.

McCain redux dead ahead.


47 posted on 12/01/2011 6:08:27 PM PST by CowboyJay (Generic Republican - 2012. He's the only 'electable' candidate.)
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To: Sudetenland
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act has generally been considered the first really successful reform of any "Great Society" programs.

Actually, there's some controversy about this because the Act was implemented during an extremely strong economy. For example:

Welfare caseloads fell over the second half of the 1990s, but this was due in large part to the strong economy. . . .

The PRWORA was implemented during the longest boom in post-war history. Researchers have found that 40 to 80% of the fall in caseloads may be attributable to the boom, rather than the policy reforms. (See Council of Economic Advisors (1998); Wallace and Blank (1998); Ziliak, et al (1997) for a thorough review of this literature.)

***

Moreover, moving people off welfare and into work was not free. Lots of taxpayer dough "sweetened" that deal, such as (from here) $14 billion in 1997 dollars for child care funding, untold big money for continuation of health care coverage (including at least one year of Medicaid), a $3 billion (again in 1997 dollars) federal contingency fund to bail out state welfare programs, and most importantly, job subsidies.

As I mentioned upthread, these latter subsidies actually work to create a de facto affirmative action program for welfare recipients. They will get hired over someone else since this can provide a subsidy to the employer.

Is it still important to reform the system? Of course. But there is no free lunch. (Well, there is, actually, if you're enrolled in the free lunch program!)

48 posted on 12/01/2011 6:12:15 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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To: CowboyJay

I was agreeing with you the first time and am agreeing with you again.


49 posted on 12/01/2011 6:14:33 PM PST by fightinJAG (NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION! Everyone should pay taxes, everyone should pay the same rate.)
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