Did FDR Provoke Pearl Harbor?

Townhall.com ^ | December 6, 2011 | Pat Buchanan

[TwoSwords]

The Japanese we’re more forward thinking than people give them credit for. They realized that industry was changing and mineral resources, not just oil, were required to be a major power. They have no resources. They made an expected attempt to gain them. No different, imho, than when Europe conquered the Americas. It was an attempt at a land/resource grab and they lost. It’s been done countless times. This time it was done to us. We still won. Convincingly.

[John S Mosby]

You are so right. FDR was some serious scum, as was that ugly b**ch he was married too. He was no match for Stalin, even though he was an American dictator.

Reference my post below #79 to LS. My family member said the brits had broken the early codes prior to late 1941 (was cleared to ‘know’ this), knew where the jap fleet was, may or may not have reported it to our command (who then sat on it if they did receive it). There are several excellent books on the code stuff and quite clear now what happened.

FDR embargoed oil to Japan— they had 30 days worth, and used it to get to the Malaya fields from the Dutch. Japs believed the US would act if Brits were attacked and thus attacked Pearl to stop this potential— this was not true since US politics were not pro-Brit at the time (thanks to stalin’s agents in FDR’s cabinet, and the german/russian pact in 1939).

Churchill and FDR, both devious men, cooked this up- Britain was on the ropes and after the war we inherited all of the crap from the old empire, places like— Iran. Lucky us. Thanks FDR.

[John S Mosby]

Respectfully, it is not ****. And it is not just “hearing it”. It is the proven truth.

Knowing the facts of a devious bastard like FDR and the progressive socialists who devastated several generations of Americans for their own power and our loss of freedom, puts us all on solid footing for defeating the lying devious bastard currently in the WH. Perhaps for some, ignorance and applied situational ethics substitutes for intellect.

If one wants to beat the demonrats and fellow travellers one could learn how the US got maneuvered into war, forcing our best and brightest to give their lives so that 60 plus years later an uninformed lazy tv millenial electorate can elect the mack daddy of jivepunka**, coke snorting, marxist-socialist progressives.

Given Buchanan’s political wanderings maybe I understand turning a blind eye. I mean, why even try to learn from those who were there (Hoover)? Why not just give up now and relive the glory days of FDR with a marxist finish, eating rodents in an obamaville?

Let it all be traitorous gamesmanship and destruction, not a true victory for freedom. Sort of cheapens the sacrifice of all those who came before. Deo Vindice.

[John S Mosby]

For a personal snapshot of FDR’s first term and his first appt. of an ambassador to Germany, a good read is

“In the Garden of Beasts” Erik Larson. Is available online for free, I think through Glenn Beck.

FDR and many fascist/commie/anti-semites in his State Dept. didn’t give a damn about Hitler (this was prior to Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact, but russian agents were throughout his admin and it was fashionable in the depression era to be a commie), or about jews.

The book is non-fiction written from the personal recollections of the ambassador and his family (his daughter was sleeping with the head of the gestapo—slut that she was, and later became a commie agent- imagine that).
Could not put it down, for this and the reason of the many parallels to the nationalist socialist we have in the WH now. Like Reagan said, freedom is never more than one generation from extinction. Deo Vindice.

[driftless2]

"how the war would have turned out"

The same way it did turn out, only a little longer. Japan couldn't hope to match U.S. industrial power as Yamamoto knew quite well. What they hoped for was a quick acquiescence by America. That wasn't in the cards. Any American pol who would have tried to make peace with Japan right after Pearl Harbor would probably been forced to leave the country.

[GreenLanternCorps]

The JN-25 Naval code was not broken until January 1942. Prior to December 7th,1941 most US codebreakers were concentrating on the “Purple” diplomatic code. The naval code was a lower priority. Also, The Imperial Japanese Navy had changed the code in the fall of 1941. So JN-25 was only about 3% broken in early December 1941. After the attacks on Hawaii, the Phillippines and Malaya, priorities shifted and the code was mostly broken by January.

Besides, the attack plans were kept under the strictest security and Kido Butai was under radio silence until the attack was launched.

[GreenLanternCorps]

We were preparing since the fall of France in June, 1940. The Two-Ocean Navy Act, giving the Navy a blank check, was passed right after that.

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks decimon for the link, and thanks Kaslin for the topic. Pitchfork Pat shows his anti-American true colors again. The Pacific is half the surface of the Earth, and the carriers were sent out of Pearl in advance of the attack -- evidence for prior knowledge deemed "untenable" by one of the geniuses at wiki-wacky-pedia. I'd like to point out that it was obvious that the Empire of Japan was an enemy because it had already attacked our allies, and was itself allied with Hitler and Mussolini who were engaged in warfare against our allies (as well as the USSR). Historically, the US doesn't go to war without provocation, we're simply not a warlike people, and I don't blame FDR for something the effin' Japanese warlords did to us. The only regrets I have about WWII is that we didn't get the atomic bomb early enough to also nuke Hitler, then chase the Soviets right back the way they came. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[ArtDodger]

To Greenlantern, detailed information about the time and date of the attack might very well have been intercepted thru non-navel codes. The radio silence only applied to the fleet after it sailed to attack Pearl. Japanese diplomats and military leaders were aware in advance of the attack and war declaration and told to prepare for a war footing.
Plenty of time and sources for FDR to scheme our entry into the war.

[IbJensen]

To those of us who read our history that answer to the headline’s question is a resounding YES!

FDR had much to answer to as his wheelchair was pushed up the ramp to hell! Probably Harry Hopkins was doing the pushing.

[John S Mosby]

How did this all come about? It is fascinating:

The British aided the Japanese Navy at Port Arthur, so they could enter and destroy the Russian Fleet. The British also tried to keep the Russians in WWI after the Bolshevik Revolution. They treated with Lenin to stay in WWI. And King V would not lift a hand to stop his cousin Tsar Nicholas II and his family from being executed— all to keep good stead with whatever government was in control in Russia.

The underlying reason for all of this, and the US complicity in it: the Russian government owed them money. Prior to the Bolshevik Revolution, the Russian State Bank received credit from France and Great Britain, and partner banks (Chase,Warburg,Morgan) in exchange for gold bullion shipped to both countries, in a significant amount (the Russian national treasury had in Petrograd in 1905 value, 65 million British Pounds of physical gold). All this to finance Russia staying in WWI.

TR was President at this time, 1905, and then Taft and then Wilson (a Progressive socialist disaster who enabled the Bolsheviks to fully take over from Kerensky).

It was the series of progressives who continued to support Russia/Soviet Union, in support of these debts due Bank of England and the French Exchequer. Despite the period of vain attempts to keep us away from the horrors of the fallout of WWI (Coolidge, Harding, Hoover)— the progressives continued, and perpetuated the Depression, and thanks to the comintern/Stalinist agents in FDR’s regime and within Churchill’s- the US went to war having embargoed the Japanese from oil they needed to hold Mongolia/China.

Looking back to the Russo-Japanese war is very instructive, especially as to how the Chinese vast territory and resources featured. The Soviets “beat” the Japanese (recall they only declared war on Japan after Germany invaded them, and right after we dropped the A-Bomb in Aug. 1945) and then helped their future comintern partners, the Chinese.

It’s been pointed out many times on FR, that US policy in these times was “played like a violin” by the Soviets, at the behest of the progressives who to this day always trot out the Nazis— failing to mention that the Nazis were themselves progressive national socialists, or the financing of the Bolsheviks by German banks to bring down their Russian enemies government. The net result- decades of horror and destruction— thanks to the comintern. They have a lot to answer for as they continue to peddle their crap to this day.

The underlying commodity, at the risk of sounding like “occupy” types- was oil (see The Prize). Sorry for the long comment- this day features rather strongly in my family’s history and our beloved country. Deo Vindice.

[John S Mosby]

To clarify, the Port Arthur events happened in 1904 with the Japanese aided by the British in both land and sea attacks. The entire Russian Pacific Fleet was destroyed.

The loans to Russia were extended in 1915, to keep Russia in WWI. And the Prussians/German banks financed Lenin and the Bolsheviks to bring down the Tsar and defeat Russia.

Tsar Nicholas II was in power through this time, until his abdication in 1917. His cousin, King George V of Great Britain would not (or could not) intervene to prevent his and his family’s execution by the communists. The connections between the royal families were very close, and honored to this day by the Royal Scots Dragoon Guard.