Posted on 02/08/2012 5:46:40 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
can't even imagine the power hungry dictator with the power to enslave young men and women at his whim...
I am sure they'll become the civilian type police force that he wants...
not just no..but HELL NO...
In my posts I have tried to note this but it’s not getting through:
I HAVE NO DATA and I was hoping you would provide it to dissuade me from my IMPRESSIONS derived from reading various articles here and there about the U.S. military. It “seems” to me that the enlisted ranks, especially insofar as the combat troops are concerned, are largely made up of young men (18 to maybe 23, 24 years) with high school diplomas, and I was simply pointing out that with the draft these enlisted men would have a larger component of older men with college degrees and their presence would be a plus for the military.
Of course, I recognize that the officer corps is comprised of these older men, almost all of whom have college degrees.
To repeat: I have no data but would like to see what is available.
That seems childlike, you merely want to create something, make it up, rather than examine something.
You have a specific point of view that you keep posting, but you refuse to back it up, or examine it, try to substantiate it.
Like a child, you freely express that you are eager to see what research people will bring to you.
One reason we are having to feminize the military and hire grandmothers and single moms, is because without the draft there has been a shortage of young males.
We don't need conscript troops.
The military doesn't want conscript troops.
It seems that these days the ONLY people who want conscript troops are anti-war zealots who want the threat of the draft to swell their ranks and coffers.
I was Regular Army during the draft and never felt that way, I doubt draftee General James B. Vaught feels that way, 93% of those of our WWII Army, were draftees.
Personally I think that draftees would be superior to 42 year old grandmothers and 35 year old single moms. We would sure save a heck of a lot of money on the first 2 years of wages, day care and other family concerns, and Gynecologists.
Do you believe government has the power to compel military service at the threat of imprisonment?
Do you see how that is involuntary servitude?
Do we have the inalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness - or only so long as we are not of military age and drafted?
Believe me - as a member of the Armed Forces I had little autonomy as far as my own life and liberty - and my pursuit of happiness had best be following orders - or it is the brig. But that was A-OK - because I was a volunteer.
I wouldn't want to serve alongside conscripts whose only choice was Military or Prison. It devalues the service of volunteers, and conscripts generally make unreliable soldiers.
What does that have to do with the contempt that you feel for draftees, and which you claim is universal, and eternal?
You don’t speak for me, or General Vaught. I don’t feel it for the 93% of American soldiers who were draftees in WWII, or my fellow soldiers who were draftees during the Vietnam war.
I don’t feel contempt for our Revolutionary War draftees, your claim that it is universal and permanent, is ridiculous.
I prefer men to women and old grandmas when we fight wars.
Afraid to answer the questions?
I have seen the German army. There is compulsory service in Germany. The smart go elsewhere. The idiots get conscripted into the Military. Their military is pure crap and the officers have to avoid the enlisted men out of uniform of they will get beaten.
Professional soldiers have almost universally held contempt for draftees. Those who I served with who served with conscripts told of open drug use, slovenly barracks, unkept soldiers in unironed uniforms, bad discipline, bad morale, and a view of the Military as just one small step above Prison.
A Samurai had contempt for a peasant with a spear. The Samurai was a professional soldier - the peasant was a conscript.
The Knight had contempt for the spearman and archer. The Knight was a professional soldier - the spearman and archer were conscripts.
Do you believe in a Government of limited and enumerated powers?
Where do you see the power to compel military service enumerated?
Do you think compelled military service is compatible with recognition of the natural rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
To reinstate the draft would be idiotic.
I was drafted in 1967 and saw firsthand the problems created with personnel who did not want to be there. Poor morale, illegal drugs, alcoholism, desertions, subversive and outright criminal behavior, etc. These were the “FTA” clowns who created an unnecessary burden upon the backs of serious soldiers and impaired mission effectiveness.
An all-volunteer Army as it is now is the only way to go.
I challenged your petty contempt for GIs who were drafted, 93% of the United States Army of WWII were draftees, in the Marine Corp, Navy, and Coast Guard, 1,730,194 were draftees in WWII. In Korea 84,000 Marines were drafted in just 15 months, by December of 1952, 63% of our Army enlisted fighting in Korea were draftees.
I spent time training with the German Fernsphäher in Germany and even longer with the French 13th Regiment during the 1980s, I thought they seemed to be fine soldiers.
I saw many fine draftees when I was regular army, they gave us the luxury of requiring by law that less than 2% of our military be female.
It is easy to take a fine young man and turn him into a motivated, well trained, fully qualified soldier, that is something that you cannot do with females.
Already in the Army Reserve, females are about 30% of our enlistments, the military is headed to be at least 50% female, but draft free which you seem pleased with.
You seem too taken with some kind of urban myth about the draft, and if you think that Knights and Samurai preferred females filling their ranks rather than handpicked men, then I have to doubt you.
Sorry you don't think they should be able to serve voluntarily and would prefer slave soldiers conscripted under the threat of imprisonment - making Military service only one small step above imprisonment as a vocation.
The universal contempt of professional soldiers for conscript soldier was my topic, that and the incompatibility of a Government of limited and enumerated powers that recognizes the natural rights of life liberty and pursuit of happiness with the involuntary servitude of conscripted military service.
You are evidently fixated upon female troops.
They are a small part of our active Military and do a much better job as professionals than the unkempt undisciplined drug taking unwilling conscripts of previous eras.
That is your claim, I'm starting to think that you get all your information about draftees second hand.
You should honor at least those draftees in the Continental army and the Indian wars which gave you this nation, and females are currently close to 20% of the military already, and heading to at least 50%
Something that is a little scary, is that in your mind, you seem to think that a 19 year old man who was drafted, was immune to becoming a true soldier during basic training and AIT, or Jump School, or Marine boot , you even seem to think that somehow they were immune to normal military discipline
I served during the draft, I just didn't see all that stuff you seemed to have witnessed, or heard about from the kind of guys that would spend time with you telling you sea stories.
Do you honestly think that you could have spotted the drafted Marines?
I presented an opinion as to what I believe, based upon what I have read. You told me I was dead wrong but came forth with no statistical data to back it up.
I am NOT interested enough in the matter to delve into U.S. military statistics to see whether the ranks are composed as I think that they are—again, an opinion not pulled out of the air but one based on readings of newspaper and magazine articls. It’s just a cursory thought, my friend, nothing beyond that. And adults are allowed to have cursory concerns.
You said that you do have this information, so why should I bother myself if you know better.
But if you have no data, then I take that at face value: you have no data.
So, if you will now kindly go away, I promise to do the same.
Adios.
Just because you can beat discipline into an unwilling participant doesn't mean you have the Constitutional right to do so.
Morale and discipline was and is much lower among conscripts and militaries that force conscription.
We need professional soldiers who are patriots and serve willingly.
We don't need, nor does the Military want, conscripts.
Serving alongside rejects whose only choices in life were Military or Prison may seem like a respected place in society to you - to me it makes Military service one step above imprisonment as a vocation.
Do you believe in a government of limited and enumerated powers?
It seems you have an issue with the German Army, not American draftees.
The United States Army and Marines can make a soldier shave, and stay within weight limits, draftees fought WWII, 70% of our war dead were draftees, 30% of our dead in Vietnam were draftees, and you hold them all in contempt.
A draftee could pass the PT tests and hold his own with any other man, RA, or draftee, females can’t do that.
George Washington won a war with his draftees, but he did not allow homosexuals and women.
It seems you have an issue with a Government of limited and enumerated powers.
It seems you prefer slavery to freedom and a slave soldier to a female soldier.
There was no draft during the American Revolutionary War. Washington called for one - but one was never authorized by Congress.
We won our Independence with volunteers.
Better luck with actual history next time.
We did have draftees in the Revolutionary war, back then it was done by the colonies and then the states.
How do you dismiss 93% of the United States Army of WWII and call them contemptible?
No I posted data, when I saw that you were never going to, that you just make up your nonsense and want to keep posting it, then I thought that you should show some effort, rather than merely asking freepers to send information to you to peruse.
Your unsubstantiated claims are meaningless without some evidence, at least try to make some effort to back up your public claims.
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