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Posted on 02/09/2012 5:16:36 AM PST by kiryandil
You have $10,000 dollars in a savings account @ 0.25% at Bank of scAmerica. How much do they owe you after a year?
You have $10,000 on a credit card @12.99% at Bank of scAmerica. How much do you owe them after a year?
There are online compounded interest calculators all over the Internet if you need help with this little math problem...
Where do I go?
Oh that's right, I am paying higher fees and interest rates on my loan to make up for those who don't pay their mortgages. Got it.
Communism is great...
That explanation makes sense...we’re in Florida and a lot of folks are underwater...BIGTIME!
We bought a foreclosure a couple years ago, it had sold for $236K in 2006, we paid a little over a third of that. Anyone who bought a house in Florida from about 2005-2008 is probably underwater (even if they did it right, 20 percent down, etc.)
There was an article in Bloomberg two days ago describing how some of these banks are offering as much as 35K for a nice fresh signature by the mortgagor.
Wonder what that's all about...lol. Obviously, an actuarial decision has been made that there is more than 35K in exposure in securites fraud, bad title, etc.
I don't think Bloomberg links are allowed on FR; but here's a link to a story that describes it.
Price of Signature of Homeowners Rises to Avoid “Title Crash”
"EDITOR’S ANALYSIS: The race is on. Homeowners are sitting on an asset — their signature — that has gone up in value 35X thus far from $1,000 to $35,000. The REAL STORY is that the Banks and servicers need to find a way to get the signatures of homeowners through any means possible, including payment. The amount of the payment is rising and will continue to rise like the last holdout of a property owner on a parcel where some big developer wants to build a giant stadium. People are starting to realize that the longer you hold out the higher will be the payment."
"The reason is simple. With the current Missouri indictment clarifying that this was no accidental paperwork problem, the realization is dawning on almost everyone that plain old property law is going to be the basis of the solution to the title crisis enveloping this nation. Without solving it, title insurers, banks, servicers, and other parties could be liable or indicted for stealing millions of homes."
"The logic is both simple and compelling. The Banks and services employed “outside servicers” to fabricate documents containing false declarations about the chain of title, their authority to execute documents. Those documents “established” that the forecloser “pretender” was the creditor and that the original loan documents were perfectly fine — and now transferred to a stranger to the transaction — something we call a break in the chain of title if it shows up in the title records."
"If the documents consisted of false declarations (and forged too), and that point is accepted as a fact proven in court, there remains no discretion for the Judge but to invalidate the title chain from the time that the break occurred forward. This means title reverts back to the way title appeared in the title chain before the fabrication of documents. That means the homeowner is still the record title owner, entitled to both the title and possession of the property."
You are exactly correct. There are no good guys in this sordid affair. The people who wanted a home, but did not have the means to pay were wrong. But they were sung the sirens song of the banker (originator of the loan)....most would take a loan who the banker told them it would be easy. But,...the greater sin lies with the truely educated, well informed, bad intentioned originator who sold them a basket of money....because he knew what he was doing. The buyer should have known,...but lets face it....many of these people were targeted expressly because of their lack of sophistication in the area of loans....they relied on what they were told by the banker. Of course the sin began with those in congress who conjoured up another ‘source of entitlement money’ by the coersively implied elements of the Community Reinvestment Act. Then there are the ‘Goldman Sacs’ of the world who created the new investment vehicle...the derivitive world gone mad....then corrupted the last 200 years of land title law with the MERS. It worked to the advantage of the bankers....it nearly brought them down....but to the rescue comes the taxpayer....bails out the banks after the Secretary of Treasury Paulson expressely told us that it was requiring the money to buy “troubled assets”...what a joke on the American taxpayer. Now,...comes obama declaring a ‘settlement’ in the the case...but we have had millions of corrupted titles and foreclosures....the banks are protected...and guess what....NO ONE IS HELD REPSPONDIBLE for the destruction of trillions of retirement assets, savings, and real estate holdings of people who played by the rules. Well, the rules have now been changed. No one goes to jail. There are no property rights which can be relied upon....because obama can just declare them moot...lets all just move on. And best of all,...the taxpayer will be allowed to pay for the bailout of the banks who committed the malfeasance and fraud. This is not the America our founders handed over to us. We are undone.
You are indeed correct on all counts.
After a moments reflection I just realised something. If we were Marxists who intended to destroy the right to own private property, what means would we use to accomplish it? Just what the Globalist Left intends. You really don't own property, only have the use of it until the government thinks they need it more than you do. Is that the net result of the MERS scam? Not exactly but certainly a step in that direction.
Will the government now step in and by fiat simply "repair" the clouded titles for the banks??? Was this the intended result? Guess we will eventually see this play out.
We are truely undone. God have mercy on this country. I tremble to know we took these metaphysical blessings of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness which could only be offered by God, and have set it at nothing, opting as a nation for enslavement. A pall of darkness is falling over the country which was a shining city on a hill, only to decend into savagery and vice as the coin of the realm. We are undone.
This is funny stuff.
Ya see, this is all designed so the banks/mortgage bosses help themselves, as they generally only help those who might leave the them, the banks, holding the bag.
Very slick, but nothing new. I give it a 3+ on the con-man scale.
I have a question - Where are the criminal charges against those bank executives and employees who engaged in criminal activities in the whole mortgage fiasco?
Answer - there won’t be many at all (maybe a few “token” charges to make it appear that something meaningful is coming of this). Too many of those who should be in jail are buddies with those in office making the rules/laws and holding the purse strings.
As usual - no real justice.
That’s a good question.
The government is projecting that homeownership will fall from about 60% to about 40% — that alone is a staggering number: a 20% drop, and I’m guessing that their estimates are (as usual) too low.
But we know about 1/3rd of people don’t have mortgages so when we multiply 2/3rds (the number of people with mortgages) by 1/5th (the number of people they say will lose their homes) we get 2/5ths ...40%. Then there’s some amount of people who have pre-bubble mortgages; it’s probably safe to say about half the people with mortgages have defaulted or will default on them.
The banks have repeatedly called their financial junk “products.” They’ve used the term again and again; they were “innovating” with new financial “products.”
You had the balls to file the original MERS claim .. how about taking it a step further with a product liability claim? The banks products failed about half the time: a staggering rate. Imagine any other product that failed half the time, leading to massive damages. Lawyers would be lined up for blocks suing on theories of product liability but I haven’t seen a single suit that goes after them saying “the banks created a defective product then blamed the people it injured.”
It’d be as if a car company released and financed a car that blew up half the time .. then said that all the people whose cars blew up — half of them — used it incorrectly and should be forced to pay for the financing. Then the lawyers for those people fell into the minutia of UCC law on the financing arrangements rather than arguing “wait .. there’s no way half the cars this company builds blow up; the car itself is obviously the problem.”
I’ve made some other crazy analogies like the exploding ford pinto, medical products (no check-up, no-illness required “pick-a-med” RX complete with financing – entire medical industry loses, forges, transfers nearly ALL RX pads when patients drop dead). Then there’s the tobacco settlement…lol.
So you have a problem with the spread at the banks? Here is a clue.. don’t put your money with the bank.. put it in your mattress.
Here’s a better one for you. Wells Fargo is a market leader in net interest margin. Do you know what it is? Well I already know you don’t. Why don’t you look it up so you can see how ridiculous you are?
Wait wait.. I know you won’t go look that up. So let me provide you a hint as to why your spread doesn’t make any sense. Do you think there is as much money borrowed from the banks as they have on deposit? The answer is nope. If you have 1 million people with 5 dollars on deposit and if you have 1 million people who have borrowed 1 dollar each what do you get?
Now if you don’t understand that math. Well I can’t help you.
One last note.. we haven’t even begun to talk about the costs of people who default on their credit cards who effect what rates everyone borrows at.
Yep.
Ok.. so you attack my grammer because you have no substance? Real smart.
Where are these many MERS cases you are talking about and where is the class action lawsuit if true? Can you point to the case?
That was the best you got? You deflected from the foreclosure settlement case with that? Come on I know you can do better than that.
No, I said that because you brought up MERS in the first place.
Come on I know you can do better than that.
Yes I can, but whether I bother depends on you.
Where are these many MERS cases you are talking about and where is the class action lawsuit if true? Can you point to the case?
HERE is an example. MERS is a mess because of all the trading on loans that had been retired but weren't purged from the database. There were hundreds of bogus foreclosures. I paid two grand to refinance, in part because my loan is owned by the FDIC. Would that make you comfy?
Here is where you are wrong: There were TWO fraudulent parties to every liar loan, the borrower who lied and the bank who defrauded the taxpayer guaranteeing the loan by claiming to have performed due diligence. They all belong in jail or facing heavy penalties. For you to call me a liberal because I want those banksters in jail is bogus, especially because you did NOTHING to check me out. I expect an apology.
Still stupid. You expect people to go to jail over electronic record keeping that was messy?
You still make the claim there were hundreds of bogus foreclosures but with no proof.
Double lame.
Let's say I'm trading bundles of mortgages. What happens if I don't purge those old mortgages from the record? Why, my stock of mortgages is BIGGER! I have something (nothing) that I can mix in with real products and inflate on the market. It was just a mistake, really. The problem is that when said "mistake" gets too large to be accountable by usual error, and especially when there are buckets of money to be made, it starts to be F-R-A-U-D.
Jail time, sonny. When bankers start to really fear Big Leon and his jar of Vaseline and when borrowers start to realize that lying on a mortgage application means picking weeds along the freeway for a year, that is when these markets will start to behave rationally and this society will stop flushing its wealth down a rat-hole at the expense of our children.
You still make the claim there were hundreds of bogus foreclosures but with no proof.
Double lame.
As I said, whether I go to the effort of digging up the data depended upon whether I thought you were worth the effort.
He's got the "scathing Internet rebuttal" down pat:
"No, it's NOT!!!
Gosh.. you really don’t understand the mortgage market at all do you? You probably read a few articles and think you know something.
Most of the banks don’t even own mortgages. They sell them to fannie and freddie who then sell them to investors. Those “investors” are who you are mad at.
Again you can’t point specifically to these buckets of money to be made on foreclosing on people that don’t even have a mortgage with said investor, you seem to talking about money to be made on specific mortgage fraud. First of all bank executives have lending guidelines, just as frannie and freddie have lending guidelines. Often times this fraud you are talking about is done between the borrower and the mortgage officer who then lie, or take party to knowing their customer is lying. Not some bank conspircy to deceive investors into buying mortgages they wouldn’t otherwise do because of bad numbers(ie income, actual loan to value, etc.) Now a bank or any company is responsible for the action of their employees but to date it doesn’t make sense to throw an executive in jail because a few sales people are scumbags. Therefore you have to threaten the sales force themselves with jail time instead of just being fired, which by the way does happen in the banking world. If you want talk about throwing sales people in jail for lying, it would have to be across the board, the Best Buy salesperson that tells you a tv is 1080p when it’s really 1080i, the Car salesman that tells you the warranty covers everything when it really doesn’t, and on down the line. Again to date these people get fired and the company pays for their mistake... well maybe not always but you get the point.
Your logic is flawed because you don’t understand the system and your lashing out at the “bankers” when really you’re just angry that people lie. People lie all the time, everywhere, so maybe we should all be jail for when our wives ask us if they look fat in a certain dress and we tell them no.
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