I beg to differ.
Posted on 02/10/2012 4:37:35 AM PST by KantianBurke
See post #220.
I beg to differ.
Wow - that would appear to be identical to the one in the photo...and only $7.50 too!
Surely decreases the odds that “no one knew...”
I take your point and will certainly do some research on just how many Nazis were in the armed forces. In the meantime, I do have the opportunity to clarify what could be taken wrongly.
If persons quite rightfully object to questionable conduct and merely require an address to that, it is ok. When I mentioned "the rotten obscene head of political correctness" I meant the use of a minor incident to destroy. That is to blow it up far and beyond what it really was. It was not done on this thread hopefully.
One is reminded of a politician who addressed black persons as "you people". The howls and nastiness were beyond belief. Instead of it being said, to "be a little more careful with the you people next time".
Excuse the ramble, just glad to clarify.
As I understand it, the SS were the protection arm of the Nazi Party. The Waffen SS were the armed wing of the SS (hence the name). All SS were Nazis.
Yeah, I agree. I don’t see any real punishment stemming from this, but it’ll be pretty uncomfortable for that chain of command in the meantime. Their Sergeant Major will chew some ass (maybe), they’ll have to dump the symbol, some folks will gripe that people are too damned sensitive (and they are), and that’ll do it.
I just always hate it when some behind-the-scenes unit culture gets tossed in the dumpster b/c some guys didn’t use their heads.
Big deal. So they got a flag that replicates their community symbol for a bargain price. The symbol was still known by all in the community, and its usage known by everyone up and down the chain of command for the past 20+ years. No one thought anything of it because the ethos of the STA community was well known: they are simply the best at killing, and they take great pride in that.
There is another possibility in all of this, but it would be supposition on my part to put it forward: the invention of the SS device fit with the name “Scout Sniper”, and the symbol of the SS fit with the psyche of inherent evil, coldness, callousness, and emotional detachment towards killing; intended to create fear and subsequent psychological domination of their opponent. In that view, I can see why it happened, and it fits as a likely scenario (apart from the other BS that is swimming in this thread and in the media). Anecdotally, there are stories of STA using playing cards with the SS on it, and leaving a calling card on a new corpse in order to screw with the enemy. But I can’t confirm that has ever happened. Either way, there seems to be at the very least, an intent to make it known that they are to be feared. And I’m all for that. There are no trophies for second place.
But for anyone to suggest that (1) they are Nazis, or (2) they are insensitive to the use of the symbol, needs to have the head gear flushed.
The ethos of STA is to kill and win. There isn’t anything fancy or more diabolical. It is what it is.
“the USMC is interlarded with rats, snitches, commies, libs, PC people and other collectivists”
Did you even bother to read the article which stated where the pic originated from? Meanwhile all members of the USMC (even the ones who engage in inappropriate behavior such as posing with a Nazi flag) protect you and your family from harm. Mighty nice of you to besmirch them from the safety and comfort of your home.
“The ethos of STA is to kill and win.”
The ethos of the SS was to murder. There is a significant difference between the two organizations. Posing with the Nazi flag dilutes that distinction and is an affront.
I did not suggest your (1), but I sure as heck suggest (2).
It isn’t a Nazi flag they posed with. It is the symbol of the Marine Scout Sniper community. And thank you for acknowledging the significant difference between the two. That in itself settles the issue, absent any evidence that connects STA with supporting Nazism.
But if one were to draw tthe inference that it is a Nazi flag, then that is on that person. I can only attest to what I know: there is no evidence, through my 20 years of service in the Marines, of any connection with the Nazis.
I will grant you that it is very similar or an exact image of the Nazi insignia (I say very similar because I’ve seen slight variations, particularly among the “brands” on the bodies of Marines).
But apparently the snipers thought it looked cool, it fit their name, and the rest is history. I’d cut the Marines some slack. Let them continue to work within their warrior culture.....it’s working for them. They adopted the insignia as a community; I say we support them, while acknowledging at the same time that the only connection is imagined: or in terms of Aristotelian logic, the (symbolic) terms are EQUIVOCAL.
How about those helmut manufacturers that make motorcycle helmuts in the style of Nazi stormtroopers? I don’t see anyone getting on their case: and its usage has been out in front of God and everyone else for decades. Did anyone consider how our WWII vets would feel witnessing this?
At least with the Marines, if they “stole” the Waffen SS insignia for their own separate purpose, so be it. The 3rd Reich is history. STA is here and now, ventilating the heads of our enemies.
Don’t copy me on posts that I didn’t make to imply that I said something that I didn’t, especially since my son is in the Marines.
Forget my last response, I didn’t understand what you were saying and why I was copied, now I do.
Actually, the general motorcycle community is down on the Nazi helmets. The same goes for the Nazi crap that used to be sold at gun shows—don’t see much of that anymore, do you?
So are we forbidden to ever use anything that resembles a notorious group we disagree with? Will the sniper scouts and other groups with SS as their initials have to only use serif fonts to illustrate their logos, so no one is offended by their group? This is ridiculous.
Sorry, but the connection is more than “imagined.”
A few minutes ago, I conducted a test. I pulled up the picture of the snipers posing with the flags and asked my father-in-law what the second flag was. He looked and said, “WHOA, that looks FAMILIAR...”
I then took the picture to my mother-in-law, and she said two words: “THAT’S NAZI!”
Both came here from Eastern Europe many years ago. FIL trained for CBI campaign in WWII, but the war ended just before he was to ship out.
You may associate that logo with Marine snipers, but I can guarantee you that the people who associate the logo with Nazis outnumber the ones who associate it with snipers by 10,000 to 1...or more.
Got it. Marines are insensitive. Cool. I can live with that. We need to stoke that some more so that our enemies are scared shiiteless of us. We don't play well with others either.
Mission accomplished.
I never said people wouldn’t “see” a Nazi symbol. All I said was.....it’s their inferrence. The STA community didn’t package this up for marketing Nazism.
Give your mother-in-law a hug and a kiss for me, and just let her know that when teenagers are formed into the hardness of killing....we sometimes don’t exhibit the same grace that society does.
And we surely don’t appreciate anyone telling us how to do our job, when our job is killing, and our tomorrows are “maybe” at best.
And that’s the end of this thread.
I’ll be happy to pass on your regards. Would you like to hum along a few bars of the Horst Wessel song?
To say that observers who recognize a Nazi emblem are “inferring” such and that it’s their error is an insult to the millions killed and an insult to those who witnessed the horrors of Nazism. Good day.
Their CINC is way ahead of them.
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