Without Jesus ONLY there would be no Bible or Christianity (the Bible pre-dates catholicism—see the Old Testament, of which Jesus is very much a part).
I’m sorry, but I will never agree with the strange doctrines of catholicism—things such as praying to dead people like the mother of Jesus and others, the pope’s “infallibility,” the false claim that the pope is God’s representative on earth (Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man—Jesus’ words, not mine), the worshipping of idols (bread, etc.), and the catholic claim that Peter was the first pope, etc. No, I will never accept these false teachings.
This is not meant to offend you two; it’s just the way it is here.
How can Mary be dead if she is with the Lord. Ditto the saints? Ditto your saintly grandmother? Hebrews 12 v. 1 speaks of a cloud of witnesses about us, It strains the context to think that the preacher is only talking about the good example. True faith never dies. As for mediation, the Lord means us to be mediators, to be witnesses of the faith. When our body dies, and we encounter Jesus, face to face, do we really forget all about those who remain behind? The soul longs for the body; hence, we expect the Resurrection of the body and taking our final place in a new creation.
Also, it should be noted that the books of Maccabees WERE Sacred Scripture, at the time of Jesus on Earth.
Since Maccabees CLEARLY supported the ideas of Purgatory and prayers to and for the dead -— Martin Luther stripped them from the Bible.
It should be noted that Luther wanted to remove other Books as well, at least 2 Books which are currently in the King James version.
Yes, human beings are fallen beings. Yes, every Church will be harmed by human failings.
However, it seems odd to me that you can object to “infallibility” (which only happens when so stated, not every thing out of a Pope's mouth is infallible, no Catholic believes that) -—
Anyway, since the Bible itself DID NOT EXIST until the Catholic Church CREATED IT, and since the Canons of the Church which accepted and rejected the various separate works of Scripture as part of that first Bible, all operated under the direction of a Pope -—
You had better hope that the Early Popes were INFALLIBLE!
But where in Catholic Documents can you find a statement that the Church does not believe in the Bible, which is what you asserted in post 6, and what I challenged you on, providing a link to a papal document on the Bible that certainly does serve to indicate that the Church believes in the Bible?
You may disagree with the Church interpretation, but that does not mean that the Church does not believe in the Bible, just that the Church doesn’t believe in your interpretation of the Bible. And unless you are infallible, don’t worry (though given your confidence in your interpretation, you do seem to be under the impression that you are infallible.
We don’t pray to dead people—some people that are physically dead are alive with God—thus in Matthew 22:32 our Lord points out that Exod. 3:6 supposes Abraham,Isaac and Jacob are alive—the Saints are as alive as Abraham, Isaac,and Jacob.
We don’t worship bread-I just composted a bunch of bread-we worship the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Incarnate Son of God. If I wanted to worship bread, I would go to a bakery. Do you see Catholics worshipping random loaves in the grocery store?
If Peter wasn’t the first Pope, who was?
I so agree with your statement regarding Jesus and share your views on the Catholic church.
12yrs of Catholic school with elementary part being in Latin. My Grandma was a Catholic all her life until my grandpa was dying in hospital and she called our local priest to come and give him last rights. He responded, well I would but I am heading out the door for a golf tournament. After the funeral, my grandmother attended Assembly of God until she died. This was a woman who made pilgrimages to Carey, Ohio ( A Catholic Shrine) every year (and took us as well)...
Raised our kids Catholic, etc. Then one day, our priest after the liturgy starts telling us how we need to join AMWAY, etc. We got up and walked out. Never been to a Catholic church since.
I have gone to the Church of Nazarene for the last 10 years and love it. Jesus was a Nazarene. I love the Bible classes, our soup kitchens, the food pantry for the poor, the outreaches, visiting people in nursing homes and hospitals, etc....
I never learned so much about the Bible and how to have a personal relationship with the Lord until I left the Catholic church. I am forgiven of my sins by confessing to Jesus, not another “man who is a supposedly go between”...I was 40yrs old when I found out that Catholics in Middle ages charged people to “pray” for the sick and the dead; and used that money to buy homes, land and entertain mistresses. I can’t get over the gold and the riches of the Vatican.
That is not what Jesus had in mind for his “church”....