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Sumter was fired upon because it garrisoned federal troops in South Carolina, after South Carolina had seceded and after South Carolina had repeatedly called for those troops to evacuate, and after Lincoln had ordered its supply and reinforcement (talk about provocation!).

Other federal troops had left and abandoned other sites located in the seceded states, but only Sumter had defied the demand to vacate. Why? Because Lincoln wanted Sumter to serve as a cause de guerre. Lincoln had declare his martial intentions towards the South before Sumter was fired upon. Indeed, he had sent warships (the USS Pawnee and USS Powhatan) and armed revenue cutter USS Harriet Lane and troops to enter Charleston Harbor and reinforce Sumter (talk about provocation!). USS Harriet Lane arrived on April 11, 1861, ahead of the other ships. When the Commander of Ft. Sumter still refused to evacuate, South Carolina fired on Sumter (the idea being that if Sumter capitulated the federal warships and troops sent by Lincoln would have nothing to reinforce).

South Carolina was faced with a hard choice: Accept the re-supply and reinforcing of an installation with declared hostile forces within its borders — a definite threat to South Carolina — or neutralize that installation and eliminate that threat. No sovereign state or nation would allow the buildup of hostile forces within its own borders, and South Carolina did what it felt obligated to do, and what Lincoln KNEW South Carolina would do (indeed, were the circumstances reversed Lincoln most assuredly would have done exactly what South Carolina did).

Then, Lincoln set the world ablaze by ordering the invasion of the Southern states.

Lincoln did not give a rat’s ass about blacks or slavery. But what he did give a rat’s ass about was the revenue collected from Southern trade and commerce, and that revenue would be lost if the Southern states seceded; and that Lincoln was not about to tolerate (indeed, his first comments upon being made aware of the Southern states seceding were focused entirely on the loss of revenue: “But what is to become of my revenues?” he said).

And where were those revenues spent? Almost exclusively in the Northern states. And what industry benefitted tremendously by the collection of those revenues? The railroads. And who, prior to his presidency, represented railroad interests? Abe Lincoln.

Lincoln waged war on the South to keep the Union intact, as that would ensure continued revenues. The only way he could keep those revenues was to keep the Southern states in the Union.

Lincoln placed the collection of revenues ahead of the lives of 600,000 people, many of whom were “in his camp.” Beyond the deaths of those 600,000, though, a far greater death resulted: The death of the constitutional republic created by and envisioned by the Founding Fathers.

Lincoln began the destruction of the United States as a constitutional republic; Woodrow Wilson added to that destruction; FDR put that destruction on steroids; and Barack Obama is hell-bent on completing the destruction.


52 posted on 02/18/2012 2:10:25 PM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: ought-six

Absolutely right.


57 posted on 02/18/2012 2:57:37 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: ought-six
Sumter was fired upon because it garrisoned federal troops in South Carolina, after South Carolina had seceded and after South Carolina had repeatedly called for those troops to evacuate...

*sigh*

Sumter was federal property and Anderson was doing his duty.

Lincoln did not give a rat’s ass about blacks or slavery.

Yea, that's why it was him that kept all the slaves and not those southrons...

Lincoln placed the collection of revenues ahead of the lives of 600,000 people, many of whom were “in his camp.”

Baloney.

68 posted on 02/18/2012 6:48:53 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: ought-six

On the other hand, Jeff Davis et al. put the continuation of Slavery ahead of the lives of 600,000+ men. He was defe3a Woodrow Wilson attempted to reinstate it through federalization of Jim Crow. FDR sought to have a tame supreme court (like Jeff Davis who just never nominated anyone to that office).


69 posted on 02/18/2012 6:50:36 PM PST by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: ought-six

I will point out that Ft Sumter was not within the limits of South Carolina. Rather it was built by the US government on a shoal, using stone from New York and Massachusetts. That also puts the lie to your statement that Federal money was only spent on Northern States. In fact, most forts were built in the south, and slaves were hired during the off season as a direct subsidy to the great men of the south.


70 posted on 02/18/2012 6:58:06 PM PST by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: ought-six
Other federal troops had left and abandoned other sites located in the seceded states, but only Sumter had defied the demand to vacate. Why? Because Lincoln wanted Sumter to serve as a cause de guerre.

Lincoln hoped that if he could maintain the appearance of an unbroken union perhaps things might settle down. Signs of federal authority in the rebel states -- post offices, mints, customs houses, courthouses -- were all in the hands of rebels. Stolen, in effect. By keeping hold of a fort in federal hands, the United States could maintain that the union was intact. It was also a matter of saving face, of saying that not everything had been grabbed.

Some Southerners, by contrast, wanted and used Sumter as a causus belli, a way of sparking a war fever that would bring the Upper South in to the Confederacy. I don't know if this applied to Jefferson Davis. He may have been the guy who has to get out in front of the hotheads in South Carolina, so as to preserve his own authority. But it's as true for all we know to say that Davis wanted the fort to spark a war as it is to say that Lincoln did -- if not more so.

South Carolina was faced with a hard choice: Accept the re-supply and reinforcing of an installation with declared hostile forces within its borders — a definite threat to South Carolina — or neutralize that installation and eliminate that threat. No sovereign state or nation would allow the buildup of hostile forces within its own borders, and South Carolina did what it felt obligated to do, and what Lincoln KNEW South Carolina would do (indeed, were the circumstances reversed Lincoln most assuredly would have done exactly what South Carolina did).

So we have Guantanamo as a provocation to Cuba, a challenge to them that will produce a war? Is that what we were doing with Berlin? Look, we have learned a lot more about enclaves and exclaves since 1861. Use it to understand the situation. Maybe people at the time didn't know what we know now, but a wise statesman should have.

Lincoln did not give a rat’s ass about blacks or slavery.

Something you two may have in common.

But what he did give a rat’s ass about was the revenue collected from Southern trade and commerce, and that revenue would be lost if the Southern states seceded; and that Lincoln was not about to tolerate (indeed, his first comments upon being made aware of the Southern states seceding were focused entirely on the loss of revenue: “But what is to become of my revenues?” he said).

That's not necessarily true. It's one of those stories Confederate sympathizers convinced themselves must have happened.

And where were those revenues spent? Almost exclusively in the Northern states. And what industry benefitted tremendously by the collection of those revenues? The railroads. And who, prior to his presidency, represented railroad interests? Abe Lincoln.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Federal railroad subsidies didn't come into their own after secession. I suspect if any region benefited inordinately from federal expenditures it was the West, where there were forts to be built and maintained.

Southerners complained that their cotton exports paid for the country's expenses. But it was imports that were taxed, rather than exports. It hasn't been established that most imports went to the South. Slaveowners took the money they "earned" from cotton and used it to buy things in the North, as much as in Europe, and those Northerners had the funds to make their own imports. Because the North had more people, more imports probably went North, rather than South, and more taxes were probably paid by Northerners.

123 posted on 02/19/2012 12:46:35 PM PST by x
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