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Witness: Zimmerman 'Never ... Tried To Help' Trayvon Martin
MSNBC ^ | March 25, 2012

Posted on 03/25/2012 12:30:48 PM PDT by Steelfish

Witness: Zimmerman 'Never ... Tried To Help' Trayvon Martin

By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services

A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him."

Zimmerman's lawyer, when shown part of the interview being aired Sunday night on Dateline, emphasized that his client would be claiming self-defense.

"I think there were efforts made to render aid to Trayvon," Craig Sonner told NBC's TODAY show.

Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

Cutcher added that Zimmerman told her and her roommate to call the police. "Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything," Cutcher said.

Sonner also reiterated what he had said in recent days, that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and a gash to the back of his head.

A friend of Zimmerman's who appeared on TODAY with Sonner added that Zimmerman, 28, was distraught over the teen's death.

"Right after the shooting he couldn't stop crying," said Joe Oliver, who is African American and a former TV reporetr and anchor in Orlando.

Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting that has ignited racial tensions and raised questions about the Sanford police's handling of the case. Martin was black, and Zimmerman's father is white and his mother is Hispanic.

In a separate interview Sunday, Oliver said that "I'm a black male and all that I know is that George has never given me any reason whatsoever to believe he has anything against people of color.''

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: org.whodat

Persecution complex.


251 posted on 03/25/2012 4:07:27 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: org.whodat

I wouldn’t care if thousands of elected officials told me what the law they wrote was intended to do. It only matters what a court decides the actual law, as written states.

Thank God for that.

Are you advocating ignoring written law by popular acclaim and the whim of the author of those laws?


252 posted on 03/25/2012 4:07:33 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: Cboldt

10 seconds of yelling when he had a fire arm...suggests that it was last resort.. not first.


253 posted on 03/25/2012 4:10:49 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: mcjordansc
So, if Trayvon Martin feared for his life because he was being followed by a suspicious man, does he have the right to fight back?

Fight back against what? Reports are now indicating that he attacked Zimmerman from behind..........Wound on back of head, broken nose, grass stains on back of shirt.

254 posted on 03/25/2012 4:12:36 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (No matter what you post here, someone's going to get pissed off......)
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To: BCR #226
-- If a person is attacking you and they don't have the strength to beat you down, you must, as the intended victim assume that the attacker has the ability to step up the attack using other means. --

So, if some chick is rubbing your crotch, you are in reasonable apprehension of serious personal injury? Or the attacker is literally your 5 year old, 30 pound nephew or something, who is pissed off at you?

I agree with you, if it is some able-bodied adult stranger undertaking the attack, it is reasonable to apprehend risk of serious personal injury. My point was just that in the entire spectrum of unwelcome contact, there are contacts where it is UNreasonable to apprehend serious personal injury. You contend there is no such thing. Well, if you kill that chick who is lustfully rubbing your crotch, or your 5 year old nephew, you are probably in trouble with the law.

255 posted on 03/25/2012 4:12:56 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: org.whodat

“.....that you cannot pursue someone and then claim stand your ground as a defense....”
************************************************
I don’t believe I’ve read anywhere that Zimmerman will claim “stand your ground” as a defense should any action be brought against him. That wouldn’t be likely to match the facts on the ground. It would be difficult for me to visualize “STANDING my ground” if I wasn’t standing but was instead laying on the ground screaming for help with someone on top of me pummeling me. In such a situation you have basically two choices—allow yourself to be beat (possibly to death) or defend yourself.

Me? I’d defend myself. You? I don’t care.


256 posted on 03/25/2012 4:12:59 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: M1911A1

I’ll answer that.

Yes, she is.


257 posted on 03/25/2012 4:14:02 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: BCR #226

I’m glad you survived.


258 posted on 03/25/2012 4:14:21 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: Cboldt
So, if some chick is rubbing your crotch, you are in reasonable apprehension of serious personal injury?

No, just serious fun!

259 posted on 03/25/2012 4:15:49 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: sauropod

Trying to step up the time table .


260 posted on 03/25/2012 4:17:52 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: M1911A1

Wrong, the facts are the facts, it what the people said. Read it for yourself. http://m.nbcmiami.com/nbcmiami/pm_108215/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=n657ijSz


261 posted on 03/25/2012 4:27:41 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: org.whodat

Not saying it was wrong to wear a hoodie, just an odd apparel choice in a hot state. I guess kids wear just about anything these days.


262 posted on 03/25/2012 4:28:22 PM PDT by varina davis (A real American patriot -- Gov. Rick Perry)
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To: Cboldt

Cops have no problems tazering kids.


263 posted on 03/25/2012 4:29:33 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: dmzTahoe

“Zimmerman was a wanna-be cop, overzealous and always suspicious. Over 40 previous 911 calls.”

Inflammatory remarks like this don’t help. The community appointed him to lead the Neighborhood Watch. If there is proof he was overzealous please provide it. Always suspicious? Again, do you have proof? He was head of the Neighborhood watch in a neighborhood with multiple crimes during the year. That would certainly put me on high alert if it was the case in my neighborhood. As Neighborhood Watch in a high crime area, give me evidence how many 911 calls weren’t justified. I live in Las Vegas. I lived in a nice gated community right next to condos that were made Section 8. I literally had on average at least 1 police helicopter per week circling over my house and at least 2 stores in the shopping plaza I was next to kept their doors locked till they saw who was there. Now how many 911 calls do you think the police got in a year from that area? I was very happy to have a big German Shepherd and a gun. I also found evidence a least one person jumped the wall into my backyard after the house behind me was turned into Section 8, plus after a fight in the street I had phone in hand to call just before it broke up, and that wasn’t the first time their activity had me thinking I might need to. So I can understand if Zimmerman maybe felt a little paranoid with the increase in crime.


264 posted on 03/25/2012 4:33:01 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: TASMANIANRED
-- Cops have no problems tazering kids. --

The point I was referring to would be rebutted with "cops have no problems shooting kids."

265 posted on 03/25/2012 4:33:57 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: sauropod
You guys are proposing, at least in part, criminal culpability on the part of Zimmerman for not heeding what you say are instructions to "cease and desist" "following the boy".

I am amazed that you then turn around and say the wording of those instructions don't matter, and are just semantics, whether it was "we don't need you to do that" and "CEASE AND DESIST FOLLOWING THE BOY".

As other posters have indicated, it wouldn't matter anyway because Zimmerman is not required to obey the commands of a police dispatcher even if they had instructed such a thing.

But to hang your hat on the supposed command uttered by the dispatcher, then when it's pointed out it's not a command at all, to brush it off as semantics... amazing.

266 posted on 03/25/2012 4:43:11 PM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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To: Cboldt

You are correct but I was trying to be generous to cops.


267 posted on 03/25/2012 4:43:23 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: Alice in Wonderland
So you linked the Florida statute for manslaughter, which I promptly showed you is clearly overcome by the 776 self defense statute.

Then, for some reason, you link an article stating that "sources say" Zimmerman "could be charged with a hate crime if evidence surfaces that the shooting was motivated by racial bias".

Where does any of this constitute probable cause to conclude Zimmerman committed a crime?

Seriously, I mean this. Take a step back for a second. Discard all the "depictions". It's just PERSON A and PERSON B. This "kid" and "skittles" and "community meeting slideshow" stuff is not relevant to whether or not a crime has been committed.

Regardless of anything else that occurred, answer this question, to yourself, and honestly:

Is it probable, based upon the evidence, that at the time Zimmerman fired at Martin, he did not reasonably fear death or serious bodily injury from Martin's attacks?

I remind you he was on his back, and screaming for help for at least 10-20 seconds, with Martin atop him and hitting him.

Can you say it is more likely than not and, indeed, probable that he was not in fear?

If you can answer yes to that question, then there's no use in continuing the discussion with you, because we will never agree on any of this.

268 posted on 03/25/2012 4:43:38 PM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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To: pops88

Something that I haven’t seen addressed that I think should be noted, having lived in several gated communities-

I didn’t do Neighborhood Watch, but I certainly new what kids lived in my neighborhood. I saw them out playing and walking to and from school. I would have certainly noticed a young man that didn’t live there and especially if he had to circumvent the gate because the kids that lived in the neighborhood used the gate code or a key. A large, 17 year old I didn’t know circumventing the gate after dark would definitely be suspicious regardless of race.


269 posted on 03/25/2012 4:43:55 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: dmzTahoe; pops88

““Zimmerman was a wanna-be cop, overzealous and always suspicious. Over 40 previous 911 calls.”

Over SIX years?

YOU decide he was a wannabe cop?

YOU decide he was overzealous?

Thanks for your opinion......


270 posted on 03/25/2012 4:46:23 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Steelfish

*Sigh*

Was the survivor open carrying? I doubt it.

In any case, your response is nonsense.

If you don’t believe being beaten by someone with their bare hands doesn’t justify using whatever force is necessary to stop said beating, you are delusional. That includes deadly force, period.

No stupid nonsensical “warning shot” or “shoot at a non life threatening spot” or whatever other gibberish you can come up with. Hollywood caricatures are purely for entertainment. If you have to use a firearm to defend yourself, you aim at center mass, of if in close proximity, a head shot or whatever you can shoot at, quickly and to the point.

You may not understand that, nor even agree with it, but it is reality. Your “way” and reality are in conflict, and I will choose reality every time. If there is a law that contradicts my belief, then that law must be struck down and those who attempt to inflict such nonsensical beliefs upon Americans should be shown the door to retirement or another appropriate venue that does not govern any citizen in this country, IMO.


271 posted on 03/25/2012 4:47:13 PM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: varina davis
That was a true story, I looked at the kid, looked at the kids mom, and she gave me that what can I say look. I laughed she grinned.
272 posted on 03/25/2012 4:49:27 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: varina davis
Not saying it was wrong to wear a hoodie, just an odd apparel choice in a hot state.

low=53 ... high=69

Ideal sweatshirt weather

273 posted on 03/25/2012 4:50:26 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: 101stAirborneVet

I agree that the dispatcher may not have had the legal authority to tell Zimmerman to cease and desist.

However the dispatcher still speaks with the Voice of Authority.

Most people, when told by a 911 dispatcher not to do something, won’t do it.

What’s so hard to understand?


274 posted on 03/25/2012 4:52:28 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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Comment #275 Removed by Moderator

Comment #276 Removed by Moderator

To: Alice in Wonderland
oh please.

Someone's guilt (or innocence) is going to be decided by an online weather report?

277 posted on 03/25/2012 4:56:14 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: jacknhoo; jwalsh07

Really, jackass?

There are reports that he was on top of Zimmerman, pummeling him with his fists when he was shot.

The “racist” ain’t Jwalsh07. It’s you.


278 posted on 03/25/2012 4:58:36 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: kanawa

Thanks for the info.

Looking at that scenario, it is equally as likely that when Zimmerman asked what he was doing around there, Martin turned and bolted and his headset fell off.

We just don’t know.


279 posted on 03/25/2012 5:00:29 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: pops88
If there is proof he was overzealous please provide it. Always suspicious? Again, do you have proof?

Do a little research... From the Miami Herald:

Over the years, his scores of calls to police showed he pursued shoplifters and errant drivers with zeal, reporting pit bulls, potholes, children playing in the street, open garage doors and “suspicious” youths — usually black males — loitering in the street.

He peppered his calls with jargon familiar to police. In one case, he chased a reckless driver while calling 911 — the driver later told police he was terrified that Zimmerman was going to attack him. In another case, Zimmerman tailed a supermarket shoplifter until a police officer successfully arrested the thief.

On the night of Feb. 26, he tailed Trayvon Martin through the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the gated community where Zimmerman lived with his wife, describing his every move to a dispatcher who told him he didn’t need to follow the young man. A scuffle ensued and Zimmerman shot Trayvon dead. Zimmerman claims self-defense.

Dr. Laurence Miller, a Palm Beach County clinical psychologist who works with local police agencies, said he believes Zimmerman likely was acting out the “whole TV cop role in his head” when he confronted Trayvon.

“A lot of people like the power and control that law enforcement officers have but with that comes a tremendous amount of responsibility,” Miller said, pointing out that a police officer is the only profession that can use “coercive physical force” or lethal force to subdue a suspected criminal.

“People act like cowboys and like the power, but not the responsibility.”

...His prior contacts with the law would have given police agencies pause.

In 2005, according to an arrest report, a state agent arrested Zimmerman for battery on a law enforcement officer and obstructing justice. According to the report, agents with Florida’s Alcohol Beverage and Tobacco division were arresting several employees near the University of Central Florida.

Agent Paul Fleishman wrote that Zimmerman walked up to a pal under arrest and began chatting, refusing to leave. Zimmerman cursed him, Fleishman wrote, before pushing him and causing a “short struggle.”

The charge was later dropped when Zimmerman entered a “pre-trial diversion” program, which is not unusual for first-time offenders. The program usually entails paying fines and taking classes for anger management.

Zimmerman — in applying to enter the citizens’ police academy — later disputed the official version of the event, insisting that the agent never identified himself. “I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regaurd [sic] as I hope to one day become. I would never have touched a police officer,” Zimmerman wrote.

Before the case was resolved, he was also involved in a domestic dispute with his ex-fiancée, hair salon employee Veronica Zauzo.

Zauzo claimed Zimmerman was trolling her neighborhood to check on her. At her apartment, they spoke for about an hour when she asked him to leave. He asked for some photos and paperwork and she refused.

A pushing match ensued and her dog jumped up and bit him on the cheek, Zauzo claimed. Zimmerman, in a petition filed the next day, painted her as the aggressor, wanting him to stay the night.

“She accused me of going to another woman’s house or going to party,” wrote Zimmerman, who said Zauzo slapped, clawed and choked him.

In their petitions, both included previous allegations of violence. In the end, an Orange County circuit judge ordered them to stay away from each other for more than a year, according to court records. No charges were filed.

His domestic troubles continued in October 2007, when Zimmerman called police to report that the tires of his Dodge Durango were slashed and he suspected his girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend.

The man denied the claim and told officers he was so annoyed by text-message exchanges with Zimmerman that he was mulling a restraining order. None was filed, according to Seminole County records.

...Over the years, records show, Zimmerman worked selling insurance, for which he earned a vocational certificate from Seminole State College.

He also worked briefly at a CarMax auto dealership, where his paycheck was garnished because of a credit-card debt.

Several years ago, Zimmerman and his wife moved into the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a multi-ethnic community that had been plagued by burglaries in recent months.

Zimmerman, according to neighbors, stepped up to organize the community watch, patrolling the neighborhood while walking his dog, toting his Kel Tek 9mm semiautomatic handgun, for which he held a concealed weapons permit.

One resident told The Miami Herald that Zimmerman implored her husband to arm himself. Another neighbor, Frank Taffee, who has frequently supported Zimmerman to the media, said Zimmerman thwarted a burglary.

His next-door neighbor, who asked not to be identified, said Zimmerman always chatted with her in Spanish and was polite, once warning her husband to move his car lest it get towed from a prohibited sidewalk space.

“I feel bad that people are talking about him,” she said. “I don’t think he’s a bad person.”

...“In law enforcement, you always run into people who speak to you in cop jargon, in a way that you can tell they are some kind of frustrated cop,” Moss said. “For the most part, they are harmless and just love police officers, but sometimes, these conversations can be alarming.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/v-print/2712299/george-zimmerman-self-appointed.html#storylink=cpy

Read the whole article... it tells of his brush with the law and his wanna-be delusions. Then you tell me, do you really want this guy roaming your neighborhood with a gun?

280 posted on 03/25/2012 5:01:50 PM PDT by dmzTahoe
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To: dmzTahoe
Dr. Laurence Miller, a Palm Beach County clinical psychologist who works with local police agencies, said he believes Zimmerman likely was acting out the “whole TV cop role in his head” when he confronted Trayvon.

So now we have a Vulcan Mind Meld thing going on.

Bilge.

281 posted on 03/25/2012 5:04:13 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: Steelfish
"The use of deadly force to repel a non-deadly attack violates the due process clause of the constitution. Time for all strong statesmen to stand up and say so fearlessly and without intent to score political points."

Black guy has brown guy on the ground, is sitting on top of him, and beating him in the face. Brown guy suffers broken nose, severe lacerations (needing stitches) to the back of his head among other injuries. Sounds like a "deadly attack" to me. And NOT by the brown guy. Eyewitness testimony and physical evidence both support the brown guy.

282 posted on 03/25/2012 5:05:06 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Sounds to me like he was doing his job.


283 posted on 03/25/2012 5:05:49 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: sauropod; jacknhoo; jwalsh07

Jacknhoo, get a life. No reason for that outburst, and jwalsh07’s post wasn’t even directed at you....it was directed at the news media.


284 posted on 03/25/2012 5:06:11 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: dfwgator

And you’re sure he’s guilty because of Skittles and an Iced Tea and talking to his girlfriend on the phone scared of being stalked by a wannabe cop who should never have been out there llike he had any kind of authority other than the SAME authroity the kid had.


285 posted on 03/25/2012 5:06:11 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: sauropod

You too!


286 posted on 03/25/2012 5:06:48 PM PDT by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: sauropod

“However the dispatcher still speaks with the Voice of Authority.

Most people, when told by a 911 dispatcher not to do something, won’t do it.

What’s so hard to understand?”

LOL. Not all of us are sheep. Some of us with Mensa level IQs too often know we’re dealing with mental midgets. When I was about 5, my sister and the almost 12 year old son of my dad’s friend were out in a motor boat on a small lake where they had a cottage. A ranger got irate and said they had to come back immediately. My father and the other farther said they weren’t doing anything wrong. The ranger got irate. They asked him to state the statute. The ranger said they had to be in hailing distance. It was pointed out that they were both in seeing and hearing distance. They made him look a complete fool. The ranger was totally out of his league. It was a good life lesson.


287 posted on 03/25/2012 5:07:04 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: jacknhoo

I’m not sure of anything....especially with all of the agendas behind the various stories out there.


288 posted on 03/25/2012 5:07:37 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Cboldt

I don’t know about you but I don’t consider a chick rubbing my crotch an attack. LOL


289 posted on 03/25/2012 5:08:56 PM PDT by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: dmzTahoe

I read what you posted.

Not a very cohesive article.

I can’t tell if it is b/c of poor writing or b/c of your excerpting. And I have no desire to find out which it is.

Not compelling.


290 posted on 03/25/2012 5:09:07 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: TASMANIANRED

That is the way I see it, as well.


291 posted on 03/25/2012 5:09:07 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

see post 280... then tell me that you would want this guy patrolling your neighborhood with a gun. A loose cannon to say the least.


292 posted on 03/25/2012 5:10:06 PM PDT by dmzTahoe
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Why are you lying? It was addressed to me.


293 posted on 03/25/2012 5:10:49 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Why are you lying? It was addressed to me.


294 posted on 03/25/2012 5:10:53 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: pops88

We’re on the same page, FRiend.


295 posted on 03/25/2012 5:10:53 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: BenLurkin
why didn't these "witnesses" go give cpr?.....honestly, they're coming out at this time, a month later?...

the only reliable statements are statements immediately after the incident....on the record...no prepping or fixing it to fit your attitude...

where was the victim shot?...face, chest? ...at what angle?....

why is basic info not available.....and doesn't anybody have accurate height and weigth ofn these two...

296 posted on 03/25/2012 5:15:49 PM PDT by cherry
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To: dmzTahoe

“The charge was later dropped when Zimmerman entered a “pre-trial diversion” program, which is not unusual for first-time offenders. The program usually entails paying fines and taking classes for anger management.”

He had classes for anger management. A neighbor described him as polite. We don’t know if he was overzealous at the time. People actually have been known to change. I’m no longer a juvenile delinquent. I managed to learn to change my ways without getting into trouble with the police, go to college and have a career. Zimmerman went to community college and had a job. It’s quite possible that when he went to anger management classes he got a clue that if he continued with that kind of behavior he’d end up in jail. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, rather than make a characterization, and consider known facts related to the current issue.


297 posted on 03/25/2012 5:18:17 PM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; sauropod; jacknhoo

Must have been a juicy post to have been deleted so quickly. So jacknhoo, what exactly did you find offensive in my post to you besides the typos of course?


298 posted on 03/25/2012 5:20:06 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Neighborhood watches exist for a reason.


299 posted on 03/25/2012 5:20:11 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: Steelfish

And exactly when do you know the PERSON THREATING YOUR LIFE has been subdued?

My best answer is when he is no longer living.


300 posted on 03/25/2012 5:24:14 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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