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Western troops take steps to avoid fratricide by Afghan troops
stripes.com ^ | March 29, 2012 | David S. Cloud

Posted on 03/29/2012 9:04:14 PM PDT by Rabin

Any time a group of Western soldiers is gathered on a joint base to exercise, train or even sleep, one member of the unit is required to be armed and on alert for possible fratricide (the act of a person killing his or her brother)…

Soldiers working as advisers in Afghan ministries have been told to move their desks so that their backs are no longer facing the door…

Ordered by Gen. John V. Allen.

(Excerpt) Read more at stripes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fratricide; johnvallen
Was "Stars and Stripes", now, just stripes, soon maybe just stripe.com. Gen. John V. Allen imparts an entire new dimension to the concept of a disaster.

Rab

1 posted on 03/29/2012 9:04:23 PM PDT by Rabin
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To: Rabin

At least in Vietnam the South Vietnamese remained on our side.

We need to get out of Afghanistan. Period.


2 posted on 03/29/2012 9:08:13 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: Rabin

Anyone think that Afghanistan won’t end exactly like Vietnam did? Anyone?


3 posted on 03/29/2012 9:08:36 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Rabin
including designating "guardian angels" to keep watch at joint bases around the clock, according to a senior military official

1) "Guardian angels" how cute and PC

2) when did the Army eliminate guard duty? Shouldn't this be standard procedure?

4 posted on 03/29/2012 9:10:18 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: Leaning Right

“Anyone think that Afghanistan won’t end exactly like Vietnam did? Anyone?”

It will be worse. There will be no loyal local troops to guard the US Embassy as the helicopters lift off the roof, and the last plane takes off from the airport.


5 posted on 03/29/2012 9:10:48 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: PGR88

This was standard when I was in Iraq during the surge, don’t now why the general had to give this order. You never, Never leave the guard unposted when near anyone who does not have a US flag on their shoulder.

My company CO had a favorite order/saying..... Always have a plan to kill anyone you meet while in country.

A co 3-21 Inf


6 posted on 03/29/2012 9:15:35 PM PDT by WyvernAK (Knowledge is Power, ie Obama is in trouble)
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To: Rabin

Troops need to start calling it the OREO. Obama’s rules egregious orders.


7 posted on 03/29/2012 9:16:21 PM PDT by TwoSwords
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To: WyvernAK

Lol.... know.... Yep I did not spell check :)


8 posted on 03/29/2012 9:17:59 PM PDT by WyvernAK (Knowledge is Power, ie Obama is in trouble)
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To: CondorFlight
There will be no loyal local troops to guard the US Embassy as the helicopters lift off the roof, and the last plane takes off from the airport.

Take for where? Fifty miles of the flat Mekong Delta lie between Saigon and the China Sea. Six hundred and fifty miles of mountains, half of which is Pakistan, lie in between Kabul and the Indian Ocean.

9 posted on 03/29/2012 9:31:31 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Pilsner
Take off for where?
10 posted on 03/29/2012 9:32:31 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Pilsner

There are many outposts where there aren’t enough troops to guard over one another 24/7. So this isn’t a solution.
If we aren’t training a ally who has the same objectives as we do..then we need to leave.
We don’t need a Dien Ben Phu.


11 posted on 03/29/2012 9:49:24 PM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: Leaning Right
The actions of a few Taliban infiltrators are not a valid or reliable indicator of how things will turn out in Afghanistan.
12 posted on 03/30/2012 12:02:14 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: CondorFlight

Yep, one of the greatest tragedies of the VN war was that millions of SVNese totally bought Uncle Sam’s program hook line and sinker, were great allies, and were totally screwed when we left. I don’t have that feeling about A-stan.


13 posted on 03/30/2012 4:47:17 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Did you forget the /sarc, or was your comment so obviously meant to be ironic, that you felt no /sarc tag was needed, and I am simply undercaffeinated and too dense yet to see the irony?


14 posted on 03/30/2012 4:49:04 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Maneuver warfare fails when you stop maneuvering.


15 posted on 03/30/2012 4:53:48 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Travis McGee
All I meant was that it's entirely possible that the Taliban had infiltrated the Afghan army with sleeper agents. They're awakening now, for murder/suicide missions. The Taliban know how the western MSM works — reporting these incidents as if they somehow represented the popular will amongst Afghans. (They might — but, I doubt it.) If my conjecture is correct, this is a masterful propaganda move. Even if it's just individual Afghan soldiers, acting on their own, it doesn't prove they represent popular opinion.
16 posted on 03/30/2012 3:34:51 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

What the hell is “popular opinion” in the A-stan context, and why the hell would it matter? If 2/3 of the country are just average slobs but 1/3 are dedicated, fanatical throat-slitters for Mohammed, the throat-slitters are going to win.

And I find your characterization of the shooters as Talib infiltrators to be naive. There is no “Taliban Command Central” giving individual shooters “orders.” These are choices made by muslim fanatics to kill some infidels and grab their 72 virgins.

And it will continue to happen as long as we are there.

Our “experiment” in A-stan will end as ignominiously as prior tries by the British and the Russians.

NOBODY wants to invest a hundred years of blood and treasure in that land of throat-slitting goat-humpers, hoping to reform them in the end. It was and is and shall be a fool’s errand to do so.


17 posted on 03/30/2012 3:42:47 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee
“If 2/3 of the country are just average slobs but 1/3 are dedicated, fanatical throat-slitters for Mohammed, the throat-slitters are going to win.”

I agree with you on that point.

Allow me to clairfy my “popular opinion” point. The MSM, liberals, anti-war fanatics, and other enemies of western civilization (but, I repeat myself) want us to believe that the “Afghan people” want to be ruled by the Taliban (or other fanatical Islamists). They report these incidents as if they amounted to referenda on the presence of western troops. I'm saying that's bogus.

18 posted on 03/30/2012 3:51:01 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Perhaps you missed the videos of thousands of these savages attempting to over run a US airbase just a few weeks ago. That’s Afghan popular opinion.

They’re savages. We shouldn’t be trying to civilize them. We shouldn’t be trying to save them from themselves. We should be killing them in job lots or we should get the hell,out now.


19 posted on 03/30/2012 3:54:54 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
If you want to argue that the war would have been won, if it had been fought by WWII rules, you're out of luck — because I'd agree with you & you'll get no argument from me.

If you want to argue that the “bomb, wait, repeat if necessary” strategy beats nation building; I'd have to concede that events in the ‘Stan have proven you right.

However, all I was saying is that the actions of the violent minority do not constitute popular opinion. It suits the anti-war, anti-western society, liberal, MSM, etc. crowd to have us believe that the mad bombers and murder-suicide scum represent the “will of the people” in Afghanistan. I'm not falling for it. It only takes a few thousand “throat-slitters” to cower a population — especially when they can continue to slither through the shadows, while the forces of civilization are forced to play by the rules.

20 posted on 03/30/2012 4:08:37 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

No, and most of the South Vietnamese didn’t want to be ruled by the Communists, but we left, so what they wanted didn’t matter. Even 1/3 of the country will win, if that third are determined enough, and willing to use unlimited personal terrorism, which was the case both in VN and A-stan.

I for one feel worse about VN than A-stan.


21 posted on 03/30/2012 7:05:11 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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