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This has become much bigger than one shooting of one person which may or may not have been justified. My guess is the Zimmerman case will end up being a watershed in how “neighborhood watch” groups get recruited and trained. I'm not at all sure if the coming changes will be good or bad.

What follows is mostly making observations and asking questions; no agenda here. I'd like a law enforcement perspective on what I'm seeing as an important difference between WTC911 and 101stAirborneVet, as well as Hulka’s comments as a concerned citizen.

I've seen law enforcement personnel here with the views of both WTC911 and 101stAirborneVet, and both sides have been quite adamant in their views. I'm wondering if perhaps this arises from a difference in training and difference in philosophy of community engagement?

In general, older officers from major urban areas I've known tend to say, “leave it to the professionals,” as WTC911 is saying, while younger officers in major cities with an emphasis on “community policing,” as well as most officers from rural areas, have taken the approach of 101stAirborneVet of valuing and actively seeking community involvement in both crime-solving and crime-stopping.

I can certainly see pros and cons to both approaches, but in an era of growing social breakdown and declining police budgets, I don't see any realistic alternative to relying on the aid of people who don't wear badges, even if they end up being “wannabes” who cause problems. That's a huge change from what I was seeing thirty years ago with police publicly saying “Don't be a dead hero, call 911” and quietly complaining about “vigilantes” and “wannabes.”

For whatever it's worth, we see a lot of that on Free Republic as well — think of the comments by people who seem to enjoy saying “when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.” We all know the truth of that statement in some situations; I'm talking not about the people who admit undeniable facts, but rather the people who seem to relish their role as people who could potentially step in to blow away the bad guy.

If the current trends toward social breakdown continue, I see no long-term solutions except a massive increase in police budgets, and that's not going to happen.

157 posted on Sat Mar 31 2012 11:25:53 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by wtc911: “Exactly what training and official experience does Zimmerman have that gives him the ability to determine “suspicious” behavior or that somebody is “up to something”? How did he describe these in the tape? Did he say Martin was looking through windows? Or into cars? Or trying door handles? No, he didn't. Most of us who do have LE experience have encountered wannabees like zimmerman. My first impression of him was as a guy who sees indians behind every tree. I haven't read anything to change that impression. Usually hyper-vigilance comes from an innate fear or is a symptom of PTSD. And, I did not “attack” you -— it was a caution about your projection.”

158 posted on Sat Mar 31 2012 11:31:11 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by 101stAirborneVet: “Speak for yourself, buddy. I spent 20 years in law enforcement, most of that in a major city. If it wasn't for vigilant citizens, half of the crimes I investigated wouldn't have ended in an arrest.”

159 posted on Sat Mar 31 2012 11:33:48 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by Hulka: “You need “training” to be able to determine suspicious behavior? Are you serious? Good Lord.”