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Distressed Cities Weigh Bold Tactics in a New Fiscal Era
NY Times ^ | March 31, 2012 | By MICHAEL COOPER and MARY WILLIAMS WALSH

Posted on 04/01/2012 1:52:32 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin

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1 posted on 04/01/2012 1:52:34 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
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To: DeaconBenjamin

The first question that comes to mind is, “How bad are you underwater on your public service pension funding?” Second, “How much do you pay your Mayor, city manager, finance direct, and police chief”?

I doubt after answering these and a few other questions anyone here at FR will do much crying for them.


2 posted on 04/01/2012 1:57:50 PM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Hard times spur creativity...easy times make you fat and lazy.

Hoo-rah for hard times!

3 posted on 04/01/2012 2:00:25 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: DeaconBenjamin

So... where is their money going??

Gay bathhouses or libraries?

ethnic community centers?

bureaucrats? paper pushers?

millions of dollars to fund “studies” and stuff?


4 posted on 04/01/2012 2:02:00 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Here's a "bold, new tactic:" Stop making laws! Stop trying to be all things to everyone! Stop robbing the many to give a few useless, counterproductive services to the few! Shut down your unions. Stop spending money you don't have and insisting it's The People who demand those additional services. They DON'T! Let the private sector do its job and you do yours.

Now THAT is innovative thinking!

5 posted on 04/01/2012 2:12:36 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Recon Dad

ie how much of you tax revenue is used for current pension expenses?


6 posted on 04/01/2012 2:13:04 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Bold Tactics?

Have they considered Limited Government?

7 posted on 04/01/2012 2:13:53 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Like Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin has become simply a stick with which to beat Whites.)
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To: RoosterRedux
Hoo-rah for hard times!

careful what you wish for.

8 posted on 04/01/2012 2:14:39 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: the invisib1e hand

Who’s wishing? Tough times are here!


9 posted on 04/01/2012 2:16:49 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: Recon Dad

Third question is “what are you doing about the obligations to current employees?”


10 posted on 04/01/2012 2:22:58 PM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: Recon Dad

“How much do you pay your Mayor, city manager, finance direct, and police chief”?

In 2009 Vallejo paid its city manager $390,000 to resign. The city manager’s salary was $341,000 per year for a city with a population of $117,000. This salary was the fourth highest in the state. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/20/BAIE17NDV1.DTL

Interesting the town spent 74% of its budget on public safety salaries prior to bankruptcy. Firefighters make over $200K per year with overtime. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/09/MNFKVEV4L.DTL

If you visit the city’s website you will see its mission, proudly communicated, “The City of Vallejo celebrates its cultural and ethnic diversity, preserves its history and maritime heritage, cares for its children and their future, and provides cost effective quality services second to none.”

It appears the people of the city are experiencing the consequences of the progressive policies of the politicians they elected for decades.


11 posted on 04/01/2012 2:23:00 PM PDT by Soul of the South (When times are tough the tough get going.)
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To: IronJack

Here in NJ the firetrucks from the neighboring town are 20 blocks away instead of 20 miles, and towns insist on paying firemen very well to sleep all day in the firehouses (we don’t have many fires, and the towns are on top of each other). Many of our paid departments were set up when large companies had factories that required the departments; those companies paid a large part of the bill for the firemen.

Forty years later the factories are closed down Superfund sites, and the firemen insist they are still necessary in the same numbers. Firemen I know tell me how important a paid department is, while they live in towns that have volunteer departments; apparently my children need paid firemen to sleep safely while their children don’t. I never supported “residency laws” until this nonsense came up.


12 posted on 04/01/2012 2:23:51 PM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: DeaconBenjamin
a fire that broke out two blocks from his home, not long after the city had closed some of its firehouses to save money.

Probably set by one of the laid-off public servant "heroes".

I'm not in favor of any publicly-funded firefighters. There should only be volunteer forces or publicly-contracted fire service subject to a competitive-bidding process.

13 posted on 04/01/2012 2:33:16 PM PDT by bkopto (Obama is merely a symptom of a more profound, systemic disease in American body politic.)
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To: RoosterRedux

you might enjoy “The Trouble With Prosperity” by James Grant.


14 posted on 04/01/2012 3:06:38 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: DeaconBenjamin

The farthest our department usually goes on mutual aid calls is 10 miles, average is 5 to 6. Driving rigs through traffic is a pain.


15 posted on 04/01/2012 3:24:23 PM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: kearnyirish2

When I’ve talked to paid firefighters, you can see from their evasive responses that they know they’re not all that they’re cracking themselves up to be WRT “Why not have volunteer departments?”

Where I have lived for the last 10+ years in two locations, the departments are volunteer, and they do quite well for what they have and the amount of ground they have to cover.

It’s high time that communities start going back to volunteer fire and law enforcement groups, and if they can’t do that, then they need to crack down on unionized workforces negotiating pensions that are simply unsupportable in the long run.

Another thing that has to happen is that people need to quit buying the BS that these “public safety” types keep peddling - that they’re working oh so very hard at such a great risk to their lives and safety.

How many firefighters die on the job per year? Between 70 and a bit over 100 per year, over the last 10 years.

Now, how many farmers and ranchers are killed on the job per year?

More than 500. About 100 farm/ranch kids are killed on the farm or ranch per year.

You don’t hear of farmers or ranchers getting fat-assed pension plans, do you? Nor unionizing to demand higher food prices.

Firefighters should man up and STFU. They’re not so terribly special. Cops die in slightly higher numbers on the job per year.

Neither comes close to the rate at which loggers, fishermen, etc die per year. We don’t see loggers getting huge pension plans, either.

At some point, someone has to just lay out the facts and tell the truth. The truth is, cops and firemen aren’t all that special. Their jobs aren’t the most hazardous, they’re not all that physically demanding by comparison to logging, fishing, ranching and farming, and they can be performed by volunteers.

The USSR tried “volunteer farming” on their collectives. Didn’t work out so well.


16 posted on 04/01/2012 3:57:34 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: the invisib1e hand

Thx! I’ll check it out!


17 posted on 04/01/2012 4:28:07 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: NVDave

I agree. I am a retired public safety person. I was also a Director of Public Safety and had 25 volunteer/part paid fire fighters.
I would put my guys up against any full time guys I know. My town of 40,000 where I live could easily go to a volunteer department and not suffer. They artificially inflate response numbers by rolling on medical calls.
We need to look at things differently because we are out of money and out of options.


18 posted on 04/01/2012 4:47:21 PM PDT by midcop402
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To: NVDave

I agree. I am a retired public safety person. I was also a Director of Public Safety and had 25 volunteer/part paid fire fighters.
I would put my guys up against any full time guys I know. My town of 40,000 where I live could easily go to a volunteer department and not suffer. They artificially inflate response numbers by rolling on medical calls.
We need to look at things differently because we are out of money and out of options.


19 posted on 04/01/2012 4:47:35 PM PDT by midcop402
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To: kearnyirish2
Fire departments are relics of the days before building codes, sprinklers, fire-retardant materials, and forced-air heating. But thanks to their unions, we have to keep them on at ever-increasing cost, doing mostly nothing.

That said, when disaster DOES strike, you couldn't pay me enough to do their job. Witness the Trade Center on 9/11. Is it worth it? Hard to say. But I think it bears a close, close re-examination. WITHOUT the unions butting in.

20 posted on 04/01/2012 4:52:07 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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