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To: MamaTexan
Having to ask permission to leave a voluntary association would negate the entire concept of sovereignty.

Having the right to withdraw from your country anytime you wish for any reason or no reason would negate the entire concept of a country or nation or patriotism.

"Sovereignty" of states or regions or localities in your sense is a recipe for civil war. The idea that some part of a country can walk out on debts and obligations whenever it wants and take away as much territory as it dares is one that inevitably leads to armed conflict.

91 posted on 04/19/2012 3:04:37 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Having the right to withdraw from your country anytime you wish for any reason or no reason would negate the entire concept of a country or nation or patriotism.

You make that statement as if it were some type of fact instead of merely your opinion.

The States, with the exception of a few enumerated powers delegated to the general government, were sovereign. That IS a fact.

Since the union of the sovereignty with the government, constitutes a state of absolute power, or tyranny, over the people, every attempt to effect such an union is treason against the sovereignty, in the actors; and every extension of the administrative authority beyond its just constitutional limits, is absolutely an act of usurpation in the government, of that sovereignty, which the people have reserved to themselves.
View of the Constitution of the United States

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The idea that some part of a country can walk out on debts and obligations whenever it wants and take away as much territory as it dares is one that inevitably leads to armed conflict.

Oh, please. With millions in lost property and almost 3/4 of a million dead all to 'protect' a fort that had sat half built for over 20 years, that old 'they couldn't leave because they owed us' dog just won't hunt.

There is absolutely NO logical reason an ambassador from the Union could not have been sent to the Confederate government to discuss compensation.

It was never about the money, it was about the POWER..... nothing more.

92 posted on 04/19/2012 3:50:54 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: x
Oh my gosh, now we're debating "concepts!" Ummm...once again, we're not a NATION, we're a UNION as in "to form a more perfect UNION" (not NATION). And there is a difference. And we're certainly NOT a country; geez, how little people know about the founding.

And why can't a State withdraw? Because "X" believes they can't? Or because in "x's" opinion, it negates a concept...so what. Why does that make it wrong or unconstitutional?

Finally, the UNION is NOT owned by the people of the 50 states (though you probably believe it is), nor is it owned by the national government. It is OWNED by the people of that particular State, privately and corporately by their consent through their STATE constitutional form of government. Again, that you believe all the "territory" is communal or owned by the national government betrays a very unhealthy devotion you have to socialism (cure music "We are the World). So "x," the PEOPLE of that State can do whatever they want to do with the land within the boarders of that State. Though I doubt you believe that. You'd seem to prefer begging your masters in DC for permission.

Geez, and we wonder why the Constitution is no longer authoritative, or we're 15 Trillion in debt, or the EPA can come in a take property. It only takes serf think by people like "x" to give the thugs in DC what they want. You've been played like a fiddle "x" by the little kings in DC.

98 posted on 04/19/2012 6:17:11 PM PDT by mek1959
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