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To: hocndoc
And If the pain is too great ... the person can’t serve or worship.

My religious beliefs are different from yours. Your statement would nullify any conversation with a good Baptist or an atheist.

You've never read about or don't believe in deathbed conversions such as in Luke 23?

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]” 43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

How could Dismas have converted in the midst of the agony of crucifixion if your first statement is true?

If your first statement is false, how many deathbed conversions are thwarted by terminal sedation?

186 posted on 05/02/2012 11:53:50 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

We know that none of the men on the cross that morning were in so much pain that they were unable to worship. And One had no need for conversion. (And who’s to say that the man who asked Jesus to remember him had not been converted and even baptized before. That’s the argument of many Church of Christ preachers.)

Nevertheless, different people have different pain and even different pain tolerances.

My own mother, on the way into the hospital for her last admission, chirped up at admissions with, “I have the best insurance there is: Jesus Christ!” On the day she died, the sheets hurt her legs, a breeze caused her to cry out in pain and we couldn’t get her pain under control at all, even with doses that should have knocked her out. In addition to (probably because of) paraneoplastic neuropathies, she had a series of lacunar infarcts that made her brain CT look like Swiss cheese. She was barely thinking and talking nonsense.

(She died of another stroke while in the MRI machine, with me at her head, singing to her. Even though our family had made our wishes that she not be resuscitated, the neurologist wanted this one last test, the paper work wasn’t finished, the hospitalist hadn’t signed the order and I had to interfere to prevent a full code.)

Perhaps if you’d studied in San Antonio, you’d have more first-hand experience. The Family Medicine residency program where I trained took the Podiatry residents for a few months of training on the in patient medicine service.


188 posted on 05/02/2012 7:09:49 PM PDT by hocndoc (WingRight.org Have mustard seed, not afraid to use it. Hold R's to promises, don't watch O keep his.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

>If your first statement is false, how many deathbed conversions are thwarted by terminal sedation?<

Why are you having difficulty understanding that giving a person morphine at the end of their life is not “terminal sedation?” Why do you want people to hurt and be uncomfortable when they don’t have to be? I find those who are so opposed to pain meds haven’t had enough pain to need them, yet.
Morphine is not some boogy man drug. It is very effective at quick pain relief, but it is also short lived. Within 2-3 hrs it has worn off and you have to administer it again.
My husband worked, drove, etc. for 8 months taking a higher dose than average of oxycontin. He had a broken hip due to the disease avascular necrosis and due to family issues had to postpone his surgery. I think its cruel not to at least try to relieve someones suffering just because a family member or caretaker has some unfounded fear of pain meds. Do you know how many times I’ve been told by family members they don’t want their dying loved one to have a narcotic for pain because they fear their loved one will become addicted to it! It leaves me scratching my head but some people really have a hard time dealing with death so they cling to ideas that somehow help them avoid the elephant in the room: that their loved one is dying.


190 posted on 05/02/2012 11:41:13 PM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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