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To: philman_36

And you’ll inevitably hoot, holler, jump for joy while doing “the happy dance” in some faux celebration and say, “See! They can’t show me what I want in the manner that I want so I won the argument. “


Wow! That’s a pretty tall admission. However, there is nothing to celebrate about.

This whole issue does affect me personally however in three ways. My paternal grandfather immigrated here in 1920 or so and he didn’t become a citizen until 1950 or so. My father was born here in 1925 to one of grandpops three wives, joined the Marines within a week of the Pearl Harbor attack, earned 3 Purple Hearts, a bronze star and a silver star. He was a hero during the war yet according to birthers he was never a citizen and according to some I am not a citizen either. Something is wrong there. The second situation I have is I was stationed in England (Navy building across the street from the American Embassy) in 1966, married an English girl and had 2 children while still stationed there. According to some they are not qualified to run for president. This can’t be. The situation gets even worse on the other side of my family. They immigrated in 1918 I believe and had six children. My mother’s father died before he could become a citizen and I could never ascertain if or when my grandmother was naturalized. Everyone said she was but no one could produce a certificate of naturalization. Three of my uncles on my mother’s side fought in WWII as well – two of them remained in the Navy for 20 years.

I do not like to think that after all the sacrifices I and my family have made for this country our children cannot run for the highest office. Just ain’t right! I am sure there are millions of such stories since we are an immigrant society. They all came over LEGALLY looking for hope, freedom and prosperity and loving this country. So there’ll be no celebrations right now.


273 posted on 05/07/2012 5:32:32 AM PDT by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: New Jersey Realist

Oops, I didn’t mean my grandpop had three wives at the same time! One at a time and maybe they weren’t married, who knows!


274 posted on 05/07/2012 5:35:05 AM PDT by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: New Jersey Realist
This whole issue does affect me personally however in three ways.
Translation - My personal situation biases my perception of the issue.

Got it.
Thanks for the story.

276 posted on 05/07/2012 6:01:48 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: New Jersey Realist
Now that is one of the most reprehensible examples of a strawman arguments tou could possibly have chosen to make. First of all, the “birthers” comment is objectionable, because you use it in a manner to suggest the people you accuse of being birthers are somehow supposed to be too irrational for a reasonable person to listen to. Your comment only succeeds in making yourself appear to be the irrational voice instead.

First, the notion that anyone arguing the issue of the Constitutional natural born citizen clause is somehow saying “he was never a citizen and according to some I am not a citizen either” is an outright falsehood with not a scintilla of truth to the false accusation. Your father was without a doubt born with U.S. citizenship provided he was born in the United States. Likewise, your birth in the United States with a father born a U.S. Citizen leaves no doubt of your own birth with U.S. citizenship. Your father was not legible to the Office of the President or the Vice President, but you are eligible to the Office of the President and Vice President. Your mother and uncles, if born in the United States, were without doubt U.S. Citizens, but they would not have been eligible to the Office of the President or Vice President, unless they were born in the United States after their parents were naturalized to be U.S. Citizens. Consequently, your accusation about someone saying something to the effect that yourself, parents, and uncles not being U.S. Citizens is false and egregiously so.

Second, the United States has often permitted the recruitment of foreign citizens to serve in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and Air Force. Many have been rewarded for their sacrifices by the granting of U.S. citizenship for themselves and their family. Many such foreigners in the military service of the United States have chosen to retain their foreign citizenship while regarding their service to the United States as an honor and a privilege. The Marquis de Lafayette in the service of the Continental Army of the United States during the American Revolution is such a notable example. Yet, men such as the Marquis de Lafayette would have chosen to die rather than to risk what they sacrificed so much for to fall into the hands of a foreign or domestic enemy of the Republic and its Constitution. As it was argued or suggested by men such as John Jay, Thomas Paine, and others, it was preferred to protect the Republic by keeping people who were born, voluntarily or not, with potentially conflicting obligations of allegiance to anyone other than the sovereign people of the United States from commanding the American Army and otherwise executing the government of the United States. To implement such a policy for the protection of the People and their new Republic, it was considered whether or not to limit eligibility to the Senate offices in addition to the Presidential offices. In a compromise, they made the term of a Senator longer, and placed the eligibility restriction only upon the President and Vice President.

Now. you come along and complain the burden of forgoing eligibility for just one generation of the first immigrant families is just too much to ask of a foreigner naturalized as a U.S. Citizen or their U.S. Citizen children, while you would deprive all of the millions of U.S. Citizens, who were born in the United States with parents born as U.S. Citizens in the United States for more than two centuries, of the protection afforded by the exclusion from just these two Federal offices! You show no consideration whatsoever for the way in which there have been but 44 U.S. Presidents, and millions of U.S. Citizens have provided their own military service at the risk of life and limb with no likely prospect whatsoever that they or their own children would ever have any reasonable opportunity to serve as the President and/or Vice President of the United States. What makes you think that your own ambitions for yourself or your children should take precedence over the protection and defense of the Constitution, the Republic, and the People of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic who would use the office of the President to harm the Republic and the People?

299 posted on 05/08/2012 5:08:36 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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