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Are you an ABO like me PO'd at JR for getting called a RINO? Truce declared! Please DONATE!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2879805/posts?q=1&;page=1#1 ^ | May 6, 2012 | Seizethecarp

Posted on 05/06/2012 8:09:35 AM PDT by Seizethecarp

Attention "Anyone But Obama" (ABO) FReepers! If you go to the thread at the link you will will see that JimRob has "declared a truce" and hundreds of ABO FReepers are now vigorously defending their belief, which I share, that the ineligible Marxist Manchurian MUST BE DEFEATED to preserve the Republic...without fear of "the ZOT"! Please consider a DONATION not just to fund renewal of expression and amplification of your ABO views, but let's over-achieve this FReepathon to get JR his new equipment!

IMO, Free Republic and FReepers could be vital in swing states in rallying just enough conservatives to tip the election and prevent our troops from having to salute for even one day longer than necessary an ineligible Marxist committed to destroying the USA !


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: abo; dontate; elsiethecow; freepathon; norino; romney; truce
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Colofornian
IMHO, on Romneycare, Mitt took the most conservative path available in a lib hellhole that MA is.

Now, I've said my piece on this matter, and shown to others that there are two sides to this story....not just your hyped distortion.

Its up to them to make up their own minds.

Good night.

1,151 posted on 05/07/2012 7:46:43 PM PDT by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: A.Hun

I think you will find that Romney might have been better at kicking the arses of his primary opponents than he will be at doing same to Obama. But that remains to be seen. Talk is cheap.
Like a typical bully, I would guess that he excels at crushing those who are better people than him but will drop the ball and retreat when confronted with true evil..

The GOP-E is Mittens homeboy..and when have they EVER fought fire with fire and stood up for first principles? For them, it’s all about power, money and control...not exactly Constitutional values.

Just my opinion.
And yes, Newt has the fire in his belly and coulda leveled BO in a debate..
But he ran a bad campaign, let alot o’people down and all but endorsed Mittens last week.


1,152 posted on 05/07/2012 7:47:23 PM PDT by Mountain Mary (One Nation Under God..."There I said it" ... Great One...)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty

The presidency isn’t everything.
We still live under a system of checks and balances.

Help keep Congress and work to take the Senate back.
Support true conservative candidates.
Work to elect local conservatives to school boards, county boards and other elective offices in your area.


1,153 posted on 05/07/2012 7:55:13 PM PDT by Mountain Mary (One Nation Under God..."There I said it" ... Great One...)
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To: A.Hun

Sounds like you are putting all your hopes in basket Romney to get rid of Obama and save the country.

It’s up to us to take the baton and reclaim our freedoms.

Having expectations that a person(or in this case, organization: the GOP)will rescue us and clean up the mess that we have created for ourselves..will inevitably lead to disappointment and probable defeat.


1,154 posted on 05/07/2012 8:04:24 PM PDT by Mountain Mary (One Nation Under God..."There I said it" ... Great One...)
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To: Jim Robinson

I’m with you brother!

Thanks for creating a home were we can debate social, Government and religious issues.

Obviously there are many subjects we cover here but it is a safe place to argue, exchange ideas or organize.

And I appreciate an environment were we can be Christians without persecution.


1,155 posted on 05/07/2012 8:46:20 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Elsie
The LSD church is positive proof that most people do not give a rat's ass about theology. The church is not about theology, it functions mainly as a support group for middle class people trying to raise children, often in quantities greater than the usual 1.8, and also as a very necessary bulwark against the power of the federal govt. in parts of the country in which upwards of 80% of the land is owned by BLAM.

Given all of that, if Mit Romney had CONVERTED to Mormonism at age 40 because he claimed the theology appealed to him, THAT would in fact bother me. People being Mormons because they were raised as Mormons will start bothering me when I start seeing Mormons flying airplanes into buildings.

1,156 posted on 05/07/2012 8:52:58 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: Jim Robinson

Well, I happen to also be a believer in God, so count me in. Thanks for your considerate reply.


1,157 posted on 05/07/2012 9:31:35 PM PDT by buckleyfan (WFB, save us!)
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To: BarnacleCenturion; A.Hun; AnTiw1; Jim Robinson
I'd like to see a Daily Kos link documenting the items below. Daily Kos tried to organize a Googlebomb against conservative Republican candidates two years ago so I wouldn't cyberdisruption past them — after all, we have been known to “FReep” a poll or two over the years ourselves, so why should be assume the other side won't use similar tactics? If an organized effort is being made by people at DailyKos to disrupt Free Republic we need to know by seeing links proving the point.

104 posted on Sun May 06 2012 13:24:37 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by BarnacleCenturion: “Bingo! Check his signup date. This forum has been infiltrated by an army of Obamabots. It’s a coordinated effort and they are laughing about it over at DailyKos.”

131 posted on Sun May 06 2012 13:59:00 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by citizen: “I've already stated I suspect that some of the more strident anti-Romney newbies may be Obamabot disrupters. How big the infiltrating army might be, I have no idea. I did not know about it being a topic for duscussion at the DailyKos, as I never go there. But I'm not surprised to hear that the effort has been organized.”

1,158 posted on 05/07/2012 9:36:19 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: Jim Robinson; All
227 posted on Sun May 06 2012 16:04:34 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by Jim Robinson: “I was simply proposing that the conservative FReepers and grassroots tea party conservatives quit tearing each other apart. When our conservative grassroots organizations are destroyed, the progressives win.”

That is the voice of wisdom.

Some of the things being said by other people on this thread do not rise to that level.

I'm going to say more once I have re-read all 1,100-plus posts. I'm seriously concerned by some of what I'm seeing but want to think twice, and possibly more, before I write things I will later regret.

1,159 posted on 05/07/2012 9:41:04 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: republicangel; Jim Robinson

“I admit that I was a monthly that cancelled. I just donated.”

Thank you very much!


1,160 posted on 05/07/2012 10:33:21 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: cherry; Jim Robinson

“I donated and sent a check in already ...this site can be very aggravating but what are we to do?...really..its that important...”

Thank you very much!


1,161 posted on 05/07/2012 10:39:30 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: NoLibZone; Jim Robinson
“Can discussion of Mitt’s running be separated from his religion?”

IMO, Obama loathes and wants to effectively replace the influence of all forms of religion with the power of the global socialist state...while the shameless chameleon Romney, whatever his shortcomings, does NOT!

I view Romney as being a politician committed first to his election with marketing branding as a “conservative,” and if elected I expect that having no real core he will govern very conservatively to insure mid-term gains and re-election as a conservative without primary opposition.

I have NO expectation that Romney would revert to ANY of his previous liberal stances, especially on abortion or gay rights or the sort of liberal court appointments in MA. If Romney had core beliefs, he would revert, but from all I have learned about Romney on FR (Thanks Jim Rob!) Romney will do what is best for Romney, and that will be to continue to try to prove his conservative bona fides.

I expect him to go straight to the Federalist Society recommended list for his appointments to SCOTUS, while Obama will go to the ACLU and La Raza.

1,162 posted on 05/07/2012 10:59:44 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: livius
“JR is not a RINO, but I think we should wait until after the convention before annointing Romney.”

The title of the thread, in the limited space, was intended to convey that ABO FReepers had been called RINOs and dis-invited from FR, not that JR had been called a RINO...

1,163 posted on 05/07/2012 11:07:34 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: My hearts in London - Everett; Jim Robinson

“I can’t donate a lot, but I donated on my last payday and intend to again on my next payday since this FReepathon is going a bit long.”

Thank you very much!


1,164 posted on 05/07/2012 11:13:32 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Hot Tabasco; Jim Robinson
“Just curious, will the banned Romney supporters be reinstated?”

You would have to ask JimRob, but I would expect a “No.”

Voting GOP against Obama because Obama is seen as far worse than Romney as a matter of conscience is not the same as “supporting Romney” and advocating for Romney as some kind of sincere conservative worthy of admiration are two different things.

I don't find relaxation of the ban on “support for Romney” in JR’s TRUCE declaration and I think he has already answered this before.

1,165 posted on 05/07/2012 11:27:05 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp

(Reposting my comment #50 which was totally ignored as to the religious flame wars):

The attacking has gone both ways between ABO and FUMR camps. I am not attacking the FUMR camp at all and never have. I respect the right of conscience of every citizen in making their vote.

The circular firing squad attacking of FReepers by FReepers, including JimRob himself, is requested to be suspended with a TRUCE being declared by JimRob at the linked thread. Some FReepers on this thread appear NOT to have read JR’s TRUCE declaration, yet.

To me, respecting the conscience of fellow FReepers includes NOT declaring my own ABO view to be the only Biblical view and NOT declaring the voting intentions of another FReeper to be a vote “for evil.”

I will vote for the candidate who will do the LEAST DAMAGE to what is left of my precious Republic!

I am voting AGAINST the ineligible Manchurian Marxist.

God will ultimately be the judge my vote, not fellow FReepers.

On this thread, I am inviting fellow ABO FReepers in particular to return to posting FReely on FR, as allowed now by JR, and also to return to DONATING.

Already the thread is getting hijacked into a religious flame war over whose vote and whose religion is most righteous. I intended this thread to be about bringing back ABO FReepers and getting DONATIONS up to include the needed equipment so that we all, both ABO and FUMR FReepers, can have the BEST Free Republic platform for this campaign.

Please take a moment today to consider making or increasing your DONATION to FR and consider going monthly! Please?


1,166 posted on 05/07/2012 11:32:04 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: ohioWfan

See post #856


1,167 posted on 05/07/2012 11:52:40 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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I am annoyed by people who defend mormonism and know nothing about it but think they do.
I am annoyed by people who defend Romney even though he is a liberal just like BHO.
I am annoyed by people who do not understand the difference between exposing mormonism and mormons and thinking it means the same thing.
I am really annoyed by people who do not like tattoos (which had noting to do with this thread).
place marker


1,168 posted on 05/08/2012 12:34:57 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian
I'm surprised God hasn't zotted MA.

Peter 3:9

But He bears patiently with you, His desire being that no one should perish but that all should come to repentance.


HIS patience WILL reach a point...

1,169 posted on 05/08/2012 3:44:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Mountain Mary
It’s up to us to take the baton and reclaim our freedoms.

Winston Churchill
"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly;
you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival.
There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
-- Winston Churchill



Saddly; an awful lot of 'Americans' LIKE being slaves!

1,170 posted on 05/08/2012 3:49:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: varmintman
Given all of that, if Mit Romney had CONVERTED to Mormonism at age 40 because he claimed the theology appealed to him, THAT would in fact bother me.

Given NONE of that, because Mit Romney has STAYED in Mormonism since adulthood, evidently indicates that he has blindly accepted the teachings of Salt Lake City. THAT FACT bothers me. It shows he is a shallow thinker; not willing to dig into MORMONism, when the WORLD knows what it stands for; as you so easily pointed out.

Just like ObamaCare (We have to PASS this law to find out what is in it) MORMONism does NOT give up it's weirdness to a casual observer. One MUST go the the rituals to find OUT about the rituals; right MORMON convertees?


Those stolen and barely modified Masonic posturings are not SACRED, as MORMONism loves to claim; but SECRET!

If they WERE 'sacred', you could actually FIND them in the LDS scriptures. One will look there in vain.

Try to find the FULLNESS of the gospel in the Book of MORMON.

It's a fools errand.

1,171 posted on 05/08/2012 4:00:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Seizethecarp
“JR is not a RINO, but I think we should wait until after the convention before annointing Romney.”

1 Samuel 16:1-13

1 The Lord said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king.”

2 But Samuel said, “How can I go? If Saul hears about it, he will kill me.”

The Lord said, “Take a heifer with you and say, ‘I have come to sacrifice to the Lord.’ 3 Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what to do. You are to anoint for me the one I indicate.”

4 Samuel did what the Lord said. When he arrived at Bethlehem, the elders of the town trembled when they met him. They asked, “Do you come in peace?

5 Samuel replied, “Yes, in peace; I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Consecrate yourselves and come to the sacrifice with me.” Then he consecrated Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice.

6 When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord’s anointed stands here before the Lord.”

7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

8 Then Jesse called Abinadab and had him pass in front of Samuel. But Samuel said, “The Lord has not chosen this one either.” 9 Jesse then had Shammah pass by, but Samuel said, “Nor has the Lord chosen this one.” 10 Jesse had seven of his sons pass before Samuel, but Samuel said to him, “The Lord has not chosen these.” 11 So he asked Jesse, “Are these all the sons you have?”

“There is still the youngest,” Jesse answered. “He is tending the sheep.”

Samuel said, “Send for him; we will not sit down until he arrives.”

12 So he sent for him and had him brought in. He was glowing with health and had a fine appearance and handsome features.

Then the Lord said, “Rise and anoint him; this is the one.”

13 So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah.

 

 

 

 Yes; let's wait until the convention before we do that!

 


1,172 posted on 05/08/2012 4:07:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: eastforker; Seizethecarp; Jim Robinson; muawiyah; AnTiw1; chris37; Osage Orange; ...
2 posted on Sun May 06 2012 10:15:17 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by eastforker: “How about a truce involving the religious bigots that inhabit this site. I am really tired of hearing the hatred spewed concerning other beliefs if different than some of these bigots.”

5 posted on Sun May 06 2012 10:40:00 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by Seizethecarp: “Persons who believe that their religious beliefs are superior and who denounce others for their ABO view appear to be a tiny minority.”

38 posted on Sun May 06 2012 11:30:27 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by eastforker: My suggestion would be a policy of no bashing of any religion or lack there of. Attacking some ones faith is the same as a personal attack IMHO.”

I didn't notice this thread until late Monday night. I've waited overnight before responding, but I believe something simply **MUST** be said.

How did we go from

1) debating whether to tolerate those who want to vote for Mitt Romney as the lesser of two evils to
2) debating getting rid of alleged religious bigots?

All I see in Jim Robinson's truce is that he's decided to allow people to publicly say that “Anybody but Obama” is okay and that voting for Mitt Romney is the lesser of two evils.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jim Robinson still thinks Romney is evil — just a lesser evil. Fair enough.

However, what some people are saying here is that we should stop criticizing Romney or even discussing religious issues. That goes **WAY** beyond anything Jim Robinson has said.

I believe the underlying issue for many of us is, as Graewoulf has said, that there's more than one type of “conservative.” Social issues conservatives are not always trying to “conserve” the same things as economic conservatives. Also, with regard to this specific thread, Eastforker admits in post 719 that he is an atheist, just not a “radical” one.

Here's what Jim Robinson has said: “As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America.”

Being “pro-God” isn't the only thing on that list defining conservative, but it **IS** the first thing on the list.

Maybe that should tell us something?

More recently, post 1108, Jim Robinson wrote this: “When I first started FR, we immediately came under attack by atheists, trolls and malcontents, who in many cases attacked us on our religious beliefs, so when I established the first set of rules for forum conduct, I included ‘No religious bigotry.’ Didn’t realize at the time that I would’ve had to qualify that as ‘no anti-Christian bigotry’ but that’s the way it is. I am definitely biased toward God and Christianity. Obviously, I also support Israel, the Jewish people and the Jewish Nation.”

Free Republic is not an atheist site. Sounds to me like Christians and Jews are not the ones who need to be careful what they say around here.

I firmly believe that Mitt Romney belongs to a cult. Both traditional Roman Catholics and evangelical Protestants have to be committed to that same conclusion if they're faithful to their doctrinal statements. In other words, please don't ask me to compromise my beliefs about Romney's religion — Romney won't compromise his beliefs about mine, though he seems willing to compromise lots of other things to get elected.

Does that make me an anti-Mormon bigot? Not by any reasonable definition. I'm willing to vote for a conservative pro-life, pro-family, anti-abortion, anti-homosexual-marriage Mormon under certain circumstances, but there's no way I'm going to act as if Mormons are part of traditional Christianity. They aren't, and the Mormons themselves believe that the “sects” that constitute the rest of the professing Christian world are corrupt and that Mormonism alone has “restored” the truth of Christianity.

In dealing with Orthodox Judaism, I have the highest possible level of respect for my Jewish brothers and sisters and for the nation of Israel, but it would be simple blindness to deny fundamental differences. Israel is our ally and Jewish people deserve the apologies of the Christian world for our horrible and unbiblical history of persecuting Jews, but we cannot minimize the question of whether Jesus is the Messiah. That is the heart of the difference between Christianity and Judaism.

That difference is a thousand times more crucial for wicked religions such as Islam which actively seek to kill and destroy faithful Christians and Jews. I can work with Mormons who, when all is said and done, belong to a religion whose founders had good things to say about the United States Constitution, or with Jewish people whose ancestors valued the United States as a bastion of religious freedom far greater than what they found in Britain or almost all nations of Europe. Islam, by contrast, is inimical to the most basic principles of Western values, in both Judeo-Christian and secular liberal forms.

I'm perfectly willing to cooperate in the political realm with conservatives of any faith or no faith, but the fact remains that all religions are not equal. To admit that is not bigotry, but to deny that is blindness.

Being allied is not the same as being in agreement.

1,173 posted on 05/08/2012 4:33:13 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina
How did we go from

1) debating whether to tolerate those who want to vote for Mitt Romney as the lesser of two evils to

2) debating getting rid of alleged religious bigots?

It's called thread Hijacking.

1,174 posted on 05/08/2012 5:21:33 AM PDT by CharacterCounts (A vote for the lesser of two evils only insures the triumph of evil.)
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To: darrellmaurina
I'm willing to vote for a conservative pro-life, pro-family, anti-abortion, anti-homosexual-marriage Mormon under certain circumstances, but there's no way I'm going to act as if Mormons are part of traditional Christianity.

I would also vote for a Mormon under these circumstances, although it would be with a great deal of hesitation. Nevertheless, this is a moot point as Romney IS NOT a conservative pro-life, pro-family, anti-abortion, anti-homosexual-marriage Mormon and to pretend otherwise would be an insult to the Mormons who actually are.

1,175 posted on 05/08/2012 5:21:52 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: darrellmaurina

You have to use the tools at your disposal to advance politically.

The only tool we have to possibly advance a conservative agenda is Romney.

That we are left with Romney is a whole discussion in and of itself, but are we going to use the tool or not?

Many at FR are stating they will not vote for Romney - that is fine, but it misses the fundamental issue at hand - the time to go full bore against the GOP establishment was in 2008. Conservatives didn’t do it effectively for 3-1/2 solid years.

To claim a principled political stand when there is no viable candidate to articulate those principles is simply self-aggrandizement and self-back-patting - in abundant supply here by folks here. “Look at me, I’ve got pure principles” - No, the time for 2012 was 3 years ago. The time for 2016 is now.

If FR is influential as it once was, why are we in this predicament? Will FR be influential for the 2016 race - or the 2014 midterms? Not if FR takes itself out of the presidential race debate in 2012.

Use the leaky bucket to bail out the boat when you don’t have any other bucket. To claim purity of principle by refusing to bail out the boat at all, even with a leaky bucket, is fine, but the boat will certainly sink.

Politics is not a place for purity of principle in the best of times. It would be nice if it was, but it never has been. Right now conservatives aren’t getting much of anything. Unseat Obama with the tool we have, and maybe we’ll get something. Don’t unseat Obama and we get nothing.


1,176 posted on 05/08/2012 5:31:49 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: darrellmaurina

Whatever. FR will continue to be a source of news for me... as for the rest, I plan to detoxify. Vaya con Dios.


1,177 posted on 05/08/2012 5:38:32 AM PDT by AnTiw1 (Men who stand firm against an army of thousands, run when a tiger appears among them. ~ShirKhan~)
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To: Elsie

There’s actually another way to look at it which is to understand that right now, we have in the whitehouse a muslim usurper whose goal in life appears to be taking this country down, and Mitt Romney is basically the only shot we have at putting an end to that.


1,178 posted on 05/08/2012 5:47:13 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: Elsie

Once more, my apologies. My call didn’t end until after 1 AM my time and I went straight to bed (with a massive headache - logic and consistancy was not a huge part of the discussion! Add to that having to shout to be heard - the guy refused to turn down his music and you can imagine how I felt at the end of it!)

Let me grab a cup of tea, see if I can evolve to vaguely human and I will answer properly.


1,179 posted on 05/08/2012 5:57:32 AM PDT by EnglishCon (When life gets too much to stand - kneel.)
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To: darrellmaurina

Hey! What are you doing on this thread making sense?

.

.

.

.

And thanks for the coherent, well thought out and expressed evaluation of the situation.


1,180 posted on 05/08/2012 6:08:00 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: varmintman
Enough of the polite persuasion...the nation is in jeopardy...the current POTUS is a traitorous bastard who is trying to destroy us.

Anybody - and I mean anybody - who enables this traitorous bastard, whether through action or inaction, is himself the same.

1,181 posted on 05/08/2012 6:09:10 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

One slight semantical problem, for Bork Obunga to be a “traitor” he’d have to be doing something which would harm Kenya. The analogy you really want is Boris Godunov.


1,182 posted on 05/08/2012 6:13:11 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

Sorry, I thought for a minute that you were a serious person...my error.


1,183 posted on 05/08/2012 6:15:00 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: EnglishCon; Elsie
For all I know God is sitting in your chair typing your recent responses. I rather hope not though, because some of them really recant our Saviours message that God loves us all, regardless.

I don't think that I've ever seen Elsie for all the years I've known him, ever post anything that indicates that God doesn't love everyone. Nor do I think that anyone outside of some WBC type group would claim so.

But there's a world of difference between God loving everyone, which He does, and everyone making it to heaven, which not all are.

God so loved the world that He sent His only Son to live the life we couldn't live, to die the death we couldn't die, to pay the penalty we are incapable of paying. He determined the times set for us and the exact places where we should live so that men might seek Him and perhaps reach out and find Him (Acts 17). He's given us the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment and draw all men to Himself. He's commanded all men everywhere to repent. He's done everything for us short of making us robots with no ability to choose in order to save us.

Anyone who is not saved is in that position of their own choice. God still loves them but they have no one to blame but themselves for not coming to Him.

Elsie speaks against the lies of Mormonism using their writings and Scripture to prove it. If someone is offended by that, it is the offense of the cross - the message of the Gospel.

1,184 posted on 05/08/2012 6:21:57 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: wtc911
The statement I made is that I simply do not believe that Obunga is working for the United States, making it imperative that we get rid of him, ASAP. If he manages to get re-elected, it's basically over, there will not be any pieces lying around for anybody to pick up or try to put back together four years down the road.

We also need several major kinds of political reforms to guarantee that we don't go through this sort of gut wrenching every four years in the future and the most major such reform would be runoff elections or instant runoff elections for all public offices. Nobody should ever fear to vote their first choice at least on a first ballot, and nobody should ever hold a public office with less than 50% of the vote. THAT would make it possible for a third or fourth party to rise up and supplant one of our existing two major parties when that needs to happen.

1,185 posted on 05/08/2012 6:23:08 AM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman

ok.


1,186 posted on 05/08/2012 6:25:01 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: darrellmaurina
Good post, darrell.

Thanks.

(Agree with the poster after yours who answered your question with, "the thread was hijacked." I apologize to all for feeding in to the hijacking, and will only respond to posts relevant to the topic of the thread.........like yours. :)

1,187 posted on 05/08/2012 6:50:24 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Jim Robinson

You couldn’t be clearer.

Can’t figure how it still escapes some.

Thanks and God Bless you and FR.


1,188 posted on 05/08/2012 7:05:13 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Boogieman
All joking aside, yes Americans are free to believe whatever they want. However, that doesn’t mean that they are free from other Americans voicing their own opinion about it, and it doesn’t mean their beliefs will be free from examination or criticism. It’s a free country, but you have to be willing to take everything that comes with it. Calling people bigots in order to get them to stop saying things you don’t want to hear is not going to work. It doesn’t work when liberals do it to conservatives, and I don’t believe it will work when one group of FReepers does it to another.

THANK YOU!!!!

1,189 posted on 05/08/2012 7:07:29 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

You are, as always, correct.

There were some things said I found distasteful in how they were put. Could have been a bad choice of words. Could have been a failure of comprehension on my part (much more likely!).

I have freepmailed Elsie and asked if he minds if we move the discussion to mails, rather than in a thread. (unsure about the time zone difference, so at least we can talk and know the other will see and respond.)


1,190 posted on 05/08/2012 7:09:53 AM PDT by EnglishCon (When life gets too much to stand - kneel.)
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To: metmom; Elsie
Elsie speaks against the lies of Mormonism using their writings and Scripture to prove it. If someone is offended by that, it is the offense of the cross - the message of the Gospel.

Brilliant

1,191 posted on 05/08/2012 7:13:43 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: RFEngineer; BlackElk; wagglebee; Lesforlife; Gelato; Steve Schulin
You have to use the tools at your disposal to advance politically.

Obviously. Of course, most refuse to look at most of those tools, and folks like yourself try to make us believe we're limited only to the tools you say we can safely use.

The only tool we have to possibly advance a conservative agenda is Romney.

That's like saying the only tool we have to possibly advance good health is a mega-dose of cyanide.

That we are left with Romney is a whole discussion in and of itself, but are we going to use the tool or not?

You cannot possibly use Mitt Romney for anything good. You can only allow yourself to be used by him. He's the one with the power. You're the tool. Do you get it?

Many at FR are stating they will not vote for Romney - that is fine...

How generous of you to let us decide how to deploy our sacred franchise.

...but it misses the fundamental issue at hand

I'm pretty certain from reading your post that you don't have a clue as to what any of the actual fundamental issues at hand really are.

- the time to go full bore against the GOP establishment was in 2008. Conservatives didn’t do it effectively for 3-1/2 solid years.

Why? Because you say so? In truth, it always the time to go all in for what is right. If you haven't done it previously, start now, before it is too late for you and your country.

To claim a principled political stand when there is no viable candidate to articulate those principles is simply self-aggrandizement and self-back-patting - in abundant supply here by folks here.

Some of us will take a principled stand even if there isn't another soul on the planet willing to do so. We don't determine right and wrong by a democratic vote, or the whims of a mob. But, in any case, the American people can make anyone they want viable, without reference to your arbitrary opinions about it.

“Look at me, I’ve got pure principles” - No, the time for 2012 was 3 years ago. The time for 2016 is now.

Again, it is always the time to do what is right.

If FR is influential as it once was, why are we in this predicament?

This "predicament" is because folks have listened for too long to people like yourself.

Will FR be influential for the 2016 race - or the 2014 midterms? Not if FR takes itself out of the presidential race debate in 2012.

Decent folks don't ask themselves those sorts of questions. They know that if they are simply faithful and consistent in doing good, they will have influence, and that if they do wrong, God will take away their power and influence. This is as sure as the sun coming up in the morning.

Use the leaky bucket to bail out the boat when you don’t have any other bucket. To claim purity of principle by refusing to bail out the boat at all, even with a leaky bucket, is fine, but the boat will certainly sink.

See, that's the thing. You're not bailing out anything. You're bashing more holes in the hull with a sledgehammer.

Politics is not a place for purity of principle in the best of times. It would be nice if it was, but it never has been.

The founders of this republic would find such statements to be repugnant.

"There exists in the economy and course of nature, an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness; between duty and advantage; between the genuine maxims of an honest and magnanimous policy, and the solid rewards of public prosperity and felicity; since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained."

-- George Washington, First Inaugural Address, 1789

Right now conservatives aren’t getting much of anything.

And they never will get anything that matters from Romney, or Romney Republicans.

Unseat Obama with the tool we have, and maybe we’ll get something.

The idea that Mitt Romney, a man whose own supporters hate him, can win this election, is laughable.

Don’t unseat Obama and we get nothing.

Sadly, with the development of Romney Republicanism, conservatives and conservatism get nothing even if you could unseat Obama and replace him with Mitt Romney. Nothing at all, except the consolidation of the socialist gains of Barack Obama.

1,192 posted on 05/08/2012 7:15:21 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Romney Republicanism: The blind leading the blind, over a cliff, into the political abyss.)
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To: wagglebee; RFEngineer; AnTiw1; Jim Robinson; metmom; CharacterCounts; ohioWfan
@AnTiw1: Yep, Free Republic is a great source of news. Jim Robinson deserves **MASSIVE** credit for coming up with the idea, way back in the earliest days of the internet gaining traction to become a mass communication medium rather than the province of a small group of techies — i.e., guys like me who go back to CompuServe days on TRS-80s and before that to punchcards fed into card readers connected to mainframes.

In many ways, Free Republic is a news aggregator like GoogleNews performing the sort of work once done by the Associated Press. However, instead of article selections being driven by a mindless computer algorithm or a small number of editors who see themselves as elite gatekeepers determining what constitutes newsworthiness, the articles are hand-selected via crowdsourcing by tens of thousands of conservative individuals who pick out things they think are important for the rest of us to know about.

Who said technological innovation is limited to the leftists? They just get more credit for their ideas since they run the traditional mainstream media. Jim Robinson came up with Free Republic and was changing politics while Howard Dean was a minor New England governor of a small state whose “netroots” and “netizen” concepts hadn't yet been promoted on the national stage.

@RFEngineer: We agree on the realities of being pragmatic in politics. Under the American system, as opposed to European-style proportional representation, if we can't get to 50 percent, we don't even get a seat at the table. I frankly haven't decided yet what I will do this fall — my concern is not so much about people supporting Romney here on Free Republic, but rather people going far beyond that position to say that religious “bigots” shouldn't be allowed. That leads to a French-style secular republic, not the Judeo-Christian foundations of the United States.

1,180 posted on Tue May 08 2012 08:08:00 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by metmom: “Hey! What are you doing on this thread making sense? ... And thanks for the coherent, well thought out and expressed evaluation of the situation.”

Thanks! It is, after all, what I'm supposed to do as a reporter — listen to lots of people, analyze what they've said, and write an article that makes some sense out of what happened at the meeting I attended.

@CharacterCounts and ohioWfan: Yep, the thread has been hijacked.

Now back on track, in a hope to unhijack things and get back to the root issue:

1,175 posted on Tue May 08 2012 07:21:52 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by wagglebee: “I would also vote for a Mormon under these circumstances, although it would be with a great deal of hesitation. Nevertheless, this is a moot point as Romney IS NOT a conservative pro-life, pro-family, anti-abortion, anti-homosexual-marriage Mormon and to pretend otherwise would be an insult to the Mormons who actually are.”

We agree.

I understand the desire of Mormons to support “one of their own.” The perils of Roman Catholics backing John F. Kennedy despite his liberal views could be instructive to Mormons.

On the other hand, if Romney loses, maybe after this election the LDS will do some housecleaning. If Reid, Romney and Huntsman become the new face of Mormonism, it won't help their church any more than the Kennedys and Archbishop Weakland helped the Roman Catholic Church.

I do not believe Mitt Romney can win this fall. But whether he wins or loses, those of us in the conservative movement have a major problem either way.

1,193 posted on 05/08/2012 7:29:47 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: EternalVigilance
"You cannot possibly use Mitt Romney for anything good. You can only allow yourself to be used by him. He's the one with the power. You're the tool. Do you get it?"

This.

Excellent post; thank you.

1,194 posted on 05/08/2012 7:48:27 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: darrellmaurina
I do not believe Mitt Romney can win this fall.

I agree with much of what you say, darrell, but not this.

If you know what happened here in Columbus when Obama "began" his campaign, you'll understand the trouble he's in. They were going door to door begging for people to come, they bussed students in from OU and they still only filled half the arena.

The kids were Obama's bread and butter, and they're no longer interested. He's given up on trying to win white blue collar voters, he's lost independents, and his horrific policies will continue to fail in front of the American people's eyes until November.

His speech was reduced to admitting that it's going to take a long time for his policies to work, but that we have to keep moving "forward" not backward.

The whole thing was a joke.

Yes, he has endless money, but unlike what some people think here on FR, people will come out in droves to work to defeat him....in spite of the fact that Romney may have been their last choice in the primaries.

People out here in the country "get it." Obama MUST go, ergo Romney WILL win.

Here in Ohio, there is an incredible young man running against Sherrod Brown for Senator. His name is Josh Mandel, and he's bright, courageous, rock solid conservative, and he told us, ready to take on "President Romney" if he has to. (And he will).

We need to work like crazy to get a majority of conservatives in the Senate, a bigger majority in the House, and hold President Romney's feet to the fire every single day of his presidency.

1,195 posted on 05/08/2012 7:49:46 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: EnglishCon

I’ve been in public restrooms where people are on the phone while doing their business.

It’s the epitome of rudeness. I don’t know what’s going on in some people’s minds.


1,196 posted on 05/08/2012 7:59:50 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: darrellmaurina; xzins; P-Marlowe
I understand the desire of Mormons to support “one of their own.” The perils of Roman Catholics backing John F. Kennedy despite his liberal views could be instructive to Mormons.

Excellent point.

However, there is even more to it than that. Catholics supported JFK in a time when matters like abortion and homosexuality were non-issues. The only other Catholic nominee for president was John Kerry and he didn't get the majority of the Catholic vote.

Conservative Mormons on FR would do well to take a cue from Catholic FReepers, four years ago the Catholics on FR overwhelmingly rejected Rudy Giuliani.

I do not believe Mitt Romney can win this fall. But whether he wins or loses, those of us in the conservative movement have a major problem either way.

No candidate in American history has ever won without the enthusiastic support of his own party. Look at the primaries, the only states Romney won by large margins are liberal states that the GOP won't win anyway.

1,197 posted on 05/08/2012 8:01:00 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Elsie
If your comments on this thread gave any indication that you were really interested in knowing, and would be receptive to the possibility that you might have not behaved in a Godly manner in your posting here, I would willingly dig through more than a thousand posts to find them.

I would suggest, rather, that you ask the Holy Spirit to examine your heart to see what if there is any truth in the reaction a number of us had to your posts, as we all should do when we are criticized.

Again.....if you're seriously interested, I will take the time to look for and freepmail the specific posts (there were a number of them) and you can reply privately as well.

I felt I needed to respond to your last post yesterday, but am not interested in continuing this conversation here, as it is not germane to the subject of the thread.

1,198 posted on 05/08/2012 8:01:00 AM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: annalex
Electing lefties is bad but diluting conservatism by whoever the GOP politburo thinks electable is worse. Screw Romney.


1,199 posted on 05/08/2012 8:07:04 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: lovesdogs; Brytani
Yes, I’ll hold my nose, choke down the vomit and circle the bubble in for Romney. I can only pray he brings in other Republicans into the Senate allowing us to take it. I pray his coat-tails will be big enough so we keep the House

The problem with that, as someone on some thread somewhere pointed out, is that if obama is in the WH, the Republican Congress with fight him and if Romney is in, they will support him, even though he proposes the exact same America destroying agenda simply because of partisan politics.

I cannot with a clear conscience vote for obama lite whom the House will back while destroying what is left of our country.

God help me. I don't want to sound like I think that obama would be a better choice than Romney because I don't. They're both going to destroy this country However, I see an obama presidency causing more of a backlash at all levels than a Romney presidency.

Either one will drag our country down, but I think there will be more kicking and screaming with obama in the White House.

The only potential for good that obama's second term would be is in terms of forcing the issue and bringing about a strong backlash with the hope that it would change things.

I guess I see this as the frog in the pot. With Romney, it's a slow boil killing us. With obama it's tossing it in quickly which COULD kill us if we let it.

That said, I do have this really BAAADDDD feeling that obama is going to get a second term and that the clock is going to seriously start ticking to count down the end.

I fear we're in for a rough ride, especially for reasons I can't get into here.

1,200 posted on 05/08/2012 8:20:35 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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