Evangelicals: Mitt Romney hit right note

Politico ^ | 5/12/2012 | Ginger Gibson

[svxdave]

LYNCHBURG, Va. — Evangelical leaders praised Mitt Romney’s speech today at Liberty University, saying that the Mormon candidate was right to acknowledge his religious differences with other Christian voters.

“It was an acknowledgment that the issues that social conservatives and evangelicals care about are important issues to Gov. Romney and as he sees them [as] part of a successful economic platform for the country,” said Family Research Council President Tony Perkins.

Perkins added that there wasn’t anything the presumptive GOP presidential nominee — who many evangelical voters regarded with skepticism during the primary while backing Rick Santorum — should have done differently. And he pointed to the huge opportunity created for Romney by President Barack Obama’s endorsement of same-sex marriage this week (Romney opposes gay marriage).

“I think he touched on the key issues that are important to social conservatives. He mentioned Rick Santorum and Rick’s emphasis and the need to have the family and the ties to economic success.” (See also: 10 essential facts about Liberty U.)

Regarding Romney’s acknowledgement that Mormonism differs from other Christian faiths in certain ways, Perkins said the candidate was correct to tackle the issue.

“That was what he needed to do, was to acknowledge that there are theological differences between him and evangelicals,” Perkins said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76233.html#ixzz1uhJgxVy5

[Elsie]

I am simply "accepting" that I am not qualified to judge others.

'You' may not be.

To judge requires that a certain amount of FACTS be presented to be analyzed.

If one is ignorant of the data involved, it is wise to recuse oneself from the situation at hand.

[Elsie]

You know by defining Christianity by a 4th century creed leaves out the early Christians as they had no creed to go by at the time, but they thought they were Christians. I guess they thought wrong.

Defining Christianity by a 4th century creed is a strawman.

[Elsie]

Speaking of CREEDS....

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Here is MORMONism's own creed:

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[Elsie]

But a Mormon believes a core doctrine different from all those.

 

Temple Recommend Questions

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1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

Temple Recommend Questions

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1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

[ansel12]

I really don't get those who are so sure that Romney was a genuine liberal before and is a fake conservative now.What is the evidence that either position is more or less genuine than the other?

You mean like being politically active in the 1980s, supporting democrats in the late 1980s and early 1990s? A past Senate campaign, and a failed governorship, where he could not run for reelection, left office with 34% approval, and wiped out the state's GOP?

Romney's entire life and his family life tell us what Romney really is, that is not merely "equal" in weight to his instantly reversing himself on everything in preparation for his presidential run.

Do you really think that at age 59, Romney, a long time politician and long active in politics and fund raising, son of a 3 term governor and presidential candidate, and having a Senate candidate mother, having joined his father in protest against conservatism at the 1964 convention, and refusing to vote for Reagan during the 1980s, suddenly had a stroke in 2006, and became totally different, a reversed mirror image of his 59 year old self, just as he was announcing that he was running for president?

[Elsie]

At least,that seems to be the only Bible I see in church, if fact when I was a protestant I used that Bible.

Ah; right THERE is your PROBLEM!!!

Surely you are AWARE the GOD Himself instructed Joseph Smith, Prophet, to re-translate the KJV to get the ERROR out that MAN had allowed!

It is known as the JST: Joseph Smith Translation.

Throw OUT that DAMNED KJV and get the REAL scriptures!!!

[Elsie]

At least,that seems to be the only Bible I see in church...

But; it is NOT the only SCRIPTURE that you see; is it?

Have you no QUAD to lug around?

[Elsie]

At least,that seems to be the only Bible I see in church...

But; it is NOT the only SCRIPTURE that you see; is it?

Have you no QUAD to lug around?

[Elsie]

And I say that as a lapsed Catholic.

And I'll agree as a Protestant!

[Elsie]

Isn’t this a little like trying to define when a ‘republican’ is just a RINO?

[rogue yam]

Yes, Romney always does a great job telling people what they want to hear.....then he will speak to a different audience the next day, and do a 180.

You say this but it's not really so. Do a 180 from one day to the next? No, that hasn't happened.

[Elsie]

How many of the words of the Bible do you have to follow to consider yourself a Christian?

See #159

[Elsie]

Obama is a disaster and while I wish there was another guy running against him, it is going to be Romney, and I don’t think I have a good choice, but to vote for him.

Oh??

Quick; tell me of a good stock to purchase.

[ansel12]

That is your argument, not that he doesn’t do, but that it isn’t literally the next day?

[Elsie]

I imagine by tomorrow morning Mohammed will have become an Icon of Christianity

Speaking of Mohammed (PBUH)...

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

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[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[rogue yam]

Your description does not match the video.

[noinfringers2]

I think I’m betwixt and between on arguments as to Romney’s spiritual status. I can’t agree with some of what I know about the Mormon religion/faith but I do know Mormons who I am pleased with their societal actions and that certainly shows to me a body of people I believe as to this day and age would satisfy our Founders intent for this Nation. This belief does not necessarily extend to Romney at the moment. As a youth I was confirmed in a a very rigid Lutheran doctrine. My brother who was very athletic and I were chastised for having our names associated with the Catholic sports teams we played on for lack of enough players in our Lutheran School. I feel this breech of doctrinal behavior has kind of colored my attitude about religious differences even though I have faith and guidance in my Lutheran religious faith.

[Elsie]

Seriously, we all need to set aside what are irrelevant differences between us.

So true; but what SHALL we do with the relevant ones?

[Elsie]

...Mormons aren't any more so than the majority of people who casually call themselves "Christian" ...

Is this supposed to nullify the fact that MORMONs believe in a demonically delivered false religion?

[ansel12]

Yes it does.

Transcript from the Mickelson interview with Romney:

Governor Mitt Romney: I make it very clear. I do not try and distance myself from my faith, in any way shape or form. I’ve been asked time and again, will you distance yourself the your Church, will you disavow this practice, and the answer is no.

Jan Mickelson: The point is when you try to hermetically seal them, that makes your potential supporters who agree with your ethics, nervous. That’s all I’m trying to say.

Governor Mitt Romney: And so what should I do? I should not have been pro-choice. And so therefore I’m just finished right there? Well you were pro choice so you distanced yourself from your faith so you’re finished. So what should I say?

Jan Mickelson: No, no, I made a mistake when I…

Governor Mitt Romney: And every Mormon should be pro-life?

Jan Mickelson: If that’s what your Church says.

Governor Mitt Romney: That’s not what my Church says! There are leaders of my Church who are pro-choice. You’re wrong. That’s your problem.

Jan Mickelson: No that’s false logic. Your Church’s official position is pro-life.

Governor Mitt Romney: No, no-no, no no. We can continue that conversation

Jan Mickelson: We only have about 30 seconds. Unless you want to stay longer.

Governor Mitt Romney: I’ve got to run.