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To: PeaRidge; rockrr
In 1785, Thomas Jefferson established his Land Ordinance, which included a provision for the abolition of slavery. It was defeated by a single vote in Congress.

That would have forbidden slavery in the Northwest Territories. The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 did just that, after Jefferson had left for France. There's no indication that he supported abolishing slavery in the states or in the nation as a whole.

Thomas Jefferson developed an anti-slavery clause in the first draft of the Declaration. The clause was removed by John Adams (MA), Benjamin Franklin (MA), Robert R. Livingston (NY), and Roger Sherman (CT). The parasites were living in Massachusetts, New York, and Connecticut.

That was more an anti-slave trade clause than an anti-slavery clause as such. And it's pretty bizarre, blaming George III for slavery and for "exciting" the slaves to revolt and murder the people he had "obtruded" tham on.

According to Jefferson himself, it was delegates from South Carolina and Georgia who wanted the clause deleted. He also blamed Northerners who voted with them. Roger Sherman was probably who he had in mind. I see no evidence that John Adams had anything to do with killing the clause. Is that something you got from the musical?

In later years Jefferson became a determined opponent of substantive anti-slavery efforts, seeing them as Northern aggression against Virginia, and caring more about slights to Southern honor than about human freedom.

The point surely is that none of the Founders was perfect. None of their ideologies was perfect in all things. The thinking of Hamilton or Jefferson or Adams or Madison can't be translated directly into a political program today without a lot of adapting and tinkering.

We can learn from them and be inspired by them, but ought to be aware of the differences between their day and our own. I guess the reverse is true as well. What seems to us now to be right might not have been possible in their era either.

84 posted on 05/29/2012 2:39:59 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Thank you X for that eloquent and wise commentary on Jefferson.

Since you are arriving late to the discussion, let me bring you up to date. We were discussing Hamilton's opinion and his ideas on banking. The issue of Jefferson was a misdirection executed by Sherman Logan when he used a personal insult of Jefferson to redirect the conversation away from Hamilton's monarchical ideas. I think he used the word parasite.

Nothing like a good ad hominem to stir up the pot, as I know you can appreciate.

So, your contentions have been already answered, and if you will look backward, you will see where you were wrong.

With regard to Jefferson's slavery clause, if you remember there were four others on the writing group, and many said a “sub group” consisted of Adams and one other. The clause removal has alternately been attributed to either the convention as a whole or those two. Most seem to think it was Adams.

93 posted on 05/30/2012 11:19:50 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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