Russia Sending Missile Systems to Shield Syria

New York Times ^

[cunning_fish]

To be honest I think S-300s are capable to engage Raptor by now. It doesn’t mean a couple of units are able to deter air strikes but they surely may track it and lock on.

[atc23]

Action? Action for what? Are you saying that the US has vital interests at stake in a Syrian rebellion?

We wish the rebels the best of luck and it would suck to be them.

And . . . Is that your editorial comment about Obama having no backbone? The comment above the byline . . Is that comment from the author of the article? If it’s yours, that’s wrong to put it in the excerpt.

[Robert Teesdale]

I really don’t have a problem with this.

First, as a capitalist I don’t have an issue with Russian arms manufacturers making a quick buck off a longstanding client before it’s obliterated. Worst case scenario is we end up in Syria as we are in Iraq and Afghanistan. In that case, Russian arms exporters are going to suffer a loss. We won’t equip follow-on state structures with noncompatible equiment or a potentially alienable logistics situation. Making money off the situation is a normal and reasonable human business response.

Second, as another noted it’s likely there’s a backdoor to the systems that are being sold to Syria. You think we don’t do that with the Abrams we sell to other nations? I would. It’s called war. All’s fair.

Third, they are providing the enemies of our state with false reassurance. Would you want to man one of these against a pissed off and hunting United States Air Force? The B2 and F22 snapshots above are indication of the quality we bring to the field. Our enemies will have responding technology and equipment; it’s a positive to have it supplied by a nominal ally.

I don’t agree that Russia or Putin have any interest in Islamic ascendancy. Certainly there will be one-off situations where superpower proxy gaming takes place; you’re not going to eliminate that practice.

[sport]

What few Christians and Jews that remain in Syria can thank Russia. Why? because if obama and Hillary get their way, they are about to get slaughtered by the “freedom Fighters”.At this point in time, all that is saving them is Assad[sp?]and Russia.

[onedoug]

Meanwhile, in Israel....

[coon2000]

I wonder if their missile shield hits the side of mountains like their state of the art civilian aircraft.

[mountn man]

I was being sarcastic about Ibama sending in the F-22's.

180 would be nearly our entire fleet of Raptors.

Flying with gear down and bays open would remove stealth capabilities.

An F-22 WITHOUT missles would have less chance than a B-29 of bombing a s-300/400

Now on a serious note. For the Raptor to be effective a few things would need to be looked at. First, Raptors would have to go in in groups. Not one on one.

Next, Raptors would go in with considerable EWA aircraft standing off outside engagement areas.

Next are we talking true S-300's or the upgraded 300's to S-400. (S-300's would be smoked, 400's would be interesting. No definetive intel as of yet)

Lastly and most importantly. Whether S-300's or 400's, because these would be in Syria, WHO is operating ALL systems is important. If Russians and 400's, could be dicey. If Syrians, Russians would lose a lot of expensive hardwear. The F-22's radar system is good for 125-150 miles while its passive receiver system is good for another 250 miles.

The S-400 radar is good to 250 miles. It can track 100 targets, but engage 12. Its long range missiles are good out to this range. The 9m96 missile has the highest hit probability but its range is 75 miles, putting it WELL within Raptors radar and missile range.

In other words, the missile that has the BEST chance of taking out the Raptor, is the short range missile, that allows the Raptor well within it operating parameters. The missiles that would allow farther engagement of the Raptor would also give the Raptor advance warning. Basically, as soon as launch the Raptor is heads up and all birds lock onto launch vehicle.

We haven't even discussed EWA aircraft.

Also RCS, Radar Cross Section. A SR-71 has the RCS that of a bird, about .01 m2. An F-35 has an RCS is about .005, an F-117 an RCS of about .0035

An F-22 is about .0001.

An F-35 has an RCS about the size of a golf ball, the Raptor that of a marble.

Now come variables no one knows yet. Though the S-400's radar is good to 250 miles, what will it pickup at 250 miles? Maybe it can lock on to a SR-71 or a F-35 at that range. But when will it lock on to the smaller RCS of the F-22? That we don't know.

Something we do know, the moment the launch vehicle is locked on, its toast, not quite true with the Raptor.

[Mormon Cricket]

Putin, the defender of the Russian Orthodox church, will now take his duties seriously to defend other Orthodox Synods, be they Greek, Serbian, or Syriac, from the onslaught of American backed Muslim Al Qada hoards seeking to wipe out Christians.

We are on the wrong side of this fight.

[1rudeboy]

Posting from the Kremlin?

[varmintman]

There's a good chance the Russians have this at least partly right. I've been waiting a long time to hear any sort of a politician say the first word about protecting Christians from muslim persecution and the first politician I've ever so far heard say the first word is Vladimir Putin.

We on th other hand have been saving muslims from persecution by other muslims only to watch the savees heave all the Christians out of the territory in question.

[A.A. Cunningham]

[1rudeboy]

I’ll grant you, “partly.” But if you think that Putin gives a damn about the Orthodox, apart from them being a voting block, you are smoking dope.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Syrian RADAR technician incompetence played a big role.

[2111USMC]

I agree.

Once again the current administration is putting us on the wrong side of this conflict.

No more U.S. assets for helping Muslims take over governments.

[Nowhere Man]

What few Christians and Jews that remain in Syria can thank Russia. Why? because if obama and Hillary get their way, they are about to get slaughtered by the “freedom Fighters”.At this point in time, all that is saving them is Assad[sp?]and Russia.

Yeah, I hate to say it, but there are times I wonder if "WE" are becoming "The Evil Empire" and Russia is becoming a "good guy" (albeit with a grey hat). I asked this in 1983 just for discussion when I was a junior in high school. "What if the US became the USSR and the USSR became the US?" I added, "what if we ever became the 'Evil Empire?'" I know Russia isn't quite like us as we used to be in freedom but in some ways, they are freer than we are currently. Needless to say, in many ways, if we continue on this path, we will resemble the USSR. I can get cocky and say, "Well, we will just clobber the heck out of them with our B-52's and loads of iron gravity bombs" but we've done too much damage over there under Obama anyhoo.

Assad is not a paragon of morality, but at least, as you pointed out, he does a good job at protecting the Christian and Jewish minorities. In that sense, if I was Syria, I'd look for any help I can get and if Russia can help me, I'd let her. We are kicking too many hornet nests over there.

Assad, by extension from his father, is more of a 1950's era, Pan-Arab nationalist much like Nassar, Kadaffy and Saddam Hussein were. If they would only leave Israel alone, I would not have much problem with them, at least they hold the radical Islamists at bay and do embrace a lot of modern ideas. I often wonder if even overthrowing Saddam was the right thing to do.

I'm not a Ron Paulie on foreign policy, we do need to watch Iran, but he does bring up the point where we are basically throwing rocks at hornet nests where we should not be doing so.

[Nowhere Man]

Putin, the defender of the Russian Orthodox church, will now take his duties seriously to defend other Orthodox Synods, be they Greek, Serbian, or Syriac, from the onslaught of American backed Muslim Al Qada hoards seeking to wipe out Christians.

We are on the wrong side of this fight.

Agreed. BTW, if Obama did this during the Cold War, we'd be banging out these responses using rocks and smoke signals (or if lucky, ham radio) in an atomic wasteland. B-P

[Nowhere Man]

I sometimes wonder if we are becoming the Evil Empire, hence harking back to my question I asked in 1983.

[Vermont Lt]

The question is: What does Russia gain by this?

Well, they keep tensions high, which will keep oil prices from sliding more. Russia has lots of oil, and they love the dollars coming in with every barrel. Best case for them is just enough conflagration to stop the flow form the gulf.

They THEY become the new Saudis.

Vlad is no fool. He can push it far enough to keep our oil guzzling alive..but try to shut the middle east down.

[varmintman]

I've read that they are building 200 new Orthodox churches in and around Moscow and they've actually rebuilt the magnificent Cathedral of Christ the Savior (Храм Христа Спасителья) in Moscow which the commies tore down to make a swimming pool out of in the early 1920s:

Take a hard look at that and try asking yourself if God had to pick a side between the US and Russia right now, which way it would be likely to go.....

[cunning_fish]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assad is not a paragon of morality, but at least, as you pointed out, he does a good job at protecting the Christian and Jewish minorities. In that sense, if I was Syria, I’d look for any help I can get and if Russia can help me, I’d let her. We are kicking too many hornet nests over there.

Assad, by extension from his father, is more of a 1950’s era, Pan-Arab nationalist much like Nassar, Kadaffy and Saddam Hussein were. If they would only leave Israel alone, I would not have much problem with them, at least they hold the radical Islamists at bay and do embrace a lot of modern ideas. I often wonder if even overthrowing Saddam was the right thing to do.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are absolutely right. People at Middle East won’t get an idea of a free republic in a lifetime. Their idea of liberty is a freedom to rob a neighbor or rape a young girl at school, to kill a Jew etc.

They need strongman to cut the most extreme haters from their testicles and make others play peace and love.

It was absolutely clear long time ago and for that reason all that neocon Spreading Democracy crap made me barf since the very beginning. The real question was they really that stupid or was it a treason.