George Zimmerman, the Constitution, and the shifting politics of self-defense

csmonitor.com ^ | 7 July, 2012 | Patrik Jonsson

[marktwain]

George Zimmerman’s lawyer says at the heart of the Trayvon Martin murder case lies a constitutional prerogative: The right of Americans to carry guns and use them in self-defense. Is he right?

Within 24 hours of Seminole County, Fla., Judge Kenneth Lester issuing a stern order allowing George Zimmerman, the defendant in the Trayvon Martin murder case, to post a $1 million bond, the volunteer neighborhood watchman received over $25,000 in donations, bringing his defense war chest to nearly a quarter of a million dollars.

Mark O’Mara, Mr. Zimmerman’s attorney, wrote that donors have been lining up for several reasons – that he’s been unfairly treated by the media, that he’s been falsely labeled a racist, and that donors, if they were in a similar position, would likely have done the same thing.

But in making an appeal for more funds, Mr. O’Mara also suggested on Friday that many Americans have given because they feel “this case is an affront to their constitutional rights,” namely the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

IN PICTURES: Trayvon Martin

To be sure, many commentators say the case has mainly to do with Zimmerman violating Martin’s equal protection rights by profiling him and then illegally depriving the boy of his basic constitutional right of life.

But judging by the speed and size of donations to the defense fund, it’s clear the case continues to provoke a separate debate about America’s shifting stance on gun rights and the constitutional case for self-defense.

“People … are definitely thinking and talking about it,” Terrence Mayfield, 61, a Florida gun permit holder, told the New York Times a few weeks before the latest bond hearing. “This whole thing rests on who threw the first punch. Either the gun saved Zimmerman’s life or we had a cowboy, someone who

[moehoward]

O’Mara,by all appearances, really did screw the pooch on that bail deal.

And, I’m not sure it was smart to come right out begging for forgiveness for lying/misleading the court on funds either.

[Uncle Chip]

But in making an appeal for more funds, Mr. O’Mara also suggested on Friday that many Americans have given because they feel “this case is an affront to their constitutional rights,” namely the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

Bull$#*!

What kind of idiot defense attorney would make such a pejorative statement like that.

They are giving because they see an innocent man being railroaded by race hustlers and devious investigators, lawyers, prosecutors, judges and journalists manipulating the system to their own benefit -- and that includes you, Mr O'Mara.

[Glenmore]

The highest military appeals court has upheld the conviction of Lt. Michael Behenna. The court upheld that as the “initial aggressor” he had lost his right to self-defense, even when being assaulted.
I wonder if similar logic will be applied to the Zimmerman case?

[Uncle Chip]

Plea offer?..

I heard O'Mara the other night on television begging and whining like a stucked pig that the state prosecutor hasn't sent him a plea offer yet. He was asking over the aire where it was.

I couldn't believe it. This guy is a loser and needs to go -- NOW.

He will throw the SYG hearing on purpose by his own incompetency and inherent disdain for SYG laws themselves.

[moehoward]

The UCMJ?
Can’t see how that would apply. Maybe in a jury nullification scenario, but there is no known proof GZ is the “initial aggressor” unless you call monitoring TM’s movements “aggressive”. In which case, it’s open season on every neighborhood watchmen, or nosey neighbor.

[Uncle Chip]

O’Mara,by all appearances, really did screw the pooch on that bail deal.

You bet he did. And yet he blames his client instead of himself.

He's the one who kept the passport in his briefcase for a month and made that into an issue. The entire Paypal fiasco should be laid at his feet. When SZ offered her BiL to testify, he should have stepped forward and asked him to come to the phone. He's their lawyer, for God's sake, not a potted plant.

What lawyer goes around saying that his client has credibility problems. Even if he does, it should not be his lawyer trumpeting them to the media and the world. He needs to go now before he does any more damage to GZ's credibility and the case.

[patriot08]

While the Zimmerman/Martin ‘white’ on black killing is covered 24/7 on the MSM with an outpouring of rage and charges of a racial hate crime, where is the concern- where is the rage about the home invasion, torture, beating, rape and murder of the elderly white couple by a gang of feral blacks in Tulsa, Oklahoma just a months ago?

The 90 year old war veteran husband was beaten and his jaw broken. He was shot in the face numerous times with a BB gun and sent to the hospital in critical condition.

The 85 year old partially blind wife was RAPED and then BEATEN TO DEATH.

Can you just imagine the pain, the humiliation, the horror that dear old lady experienced being gang raped by that pack of feral animals?

(the autopsy states she was raped. Don’t think all of these animals didn’t all participate)

And can you imagine the pain, the horror of that dear old husband having to witness this?

Mr. Strait died from his injuries shortly after his wife.

There’s a lot more involved here than a home invasion and robbery.

WHERE ARE THE CHARGES OF A RACIAL HATE CRIME??

90 year old husband’s jaw broken and shot in face with a BB gun numerous times?

85 wife year old semi blind wife RAPED and BEATEN to death??

Why does it take a foreign press to enlighten America as to this henious crime?

WHERE IS THE NATIONAL OUTRAGE?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117695/Brutal-home-invasion-Oklahoma-couple-ends-65-year-romance-meeting-blind-date.html

__________________________

Have they caught the rest of the gang of feral blacks who raped, tortured and murdered this elderly woman? Are they even looking? Not a word about it in the media.

[Uncle Chip]

The court upheld that as the “initial aggressor” he had lost his right to self-defense, even when being assaulted.

In SYG laws the initial punch is not the final or most important determinant. Was there one side who escalated the fight or who had the other person down and at a disadvantage yet continued the fight. And fear of imminent injury or death at the time of the use of deadly force is probably most important and will be so in this case.

In this case the confrontation was initiated by TM per his friend DD, TM threw the first punch and only other punches per the forensic evidence, TM was on top of his victim hitting him MMA style per the witnesses, and by admission from BDLR at the 29th hearing, TM had his hands over the victim's mouth trying to keep him from yelling for help and from breathing in the process.

By any account, TM started the assault and continued it and intended to finish it with GZ's death. This should be a slam dunk but GZ's lawyer does not believe in SYG laws and appears situated to throw the SYG hearing.

[SeminoleCounty]

Actually, Zimmerman would get a favorable jury in Seminole County...unlike Sanford...it is not one big Black Racist ghetto. Seminole is mainly suburban, conservative, and GOP voting...he will get a fair jury here

Problem is that the Judge is corrupt (his wife was the prosecutor in Zimmerman’s spat with his ex) and did not recuse himself. The prosecutors are outside the district and WERE APPOINTED BY GOV RICK SCOTT AND AG PAM BONDI, BOTH GOP...cannot wait to primary them out in 2014. And, Zimmerman’s own attorney is an absolute joke

Zimmerman needs a new attorney, first and foremost. His current attorney trashes him in the media. He needs an attorney that will repeatedly attack Trayvon Martin, his family, and their handlers.

This is disgusting what is going on here. My only consolation is that this county has pretty sensible people that will serve on a jury...those Black Racist Ghetto Gang Bangers who want to riot and burn down their hell hole hoods do not sit on jurys here (they usually have to appear before a jury, not be part of one)

[battletank]

“I have never in my life heard an attorney do more to bash his own client and his own client’s credibility in front of the media than Mark O’Mara.

He’s pathetic and he needs to go — NOW.”

APPLAUSE! YES! This guy has not been an advocate for his client at ALL! HE should have been gone weeks ago.

[Uncle Chip]

"To Trayvon supporters, the fact that a half-white, half-Hispanic man went free after profiling Trayvon, an innocent black boy, as a criminal, chasing after him, and then shooting the unarmed boy reeked of racial inequality and even institutional racism."

A fairy tale.

That is an unbelievable sentence. They have to ignore mounds of documented evidence to the contrary in order to continue to believe their fairy tale -- and yet they do. And worse yet, they sit on juries and vote.

[Glenmore]

This case reeks of being ‘fixed.’ GZ’s lawyers, prosecutors, judges, all seem to be motivated to sacrifice GZ to preserve ‘peace’ (& their political aspirations.) Unlikely he will be tried anywhere he can get a fair jury either.

And although it is not a UCMJ case like Behenna’s, I would still not be surprised to see similar logic applied. And will it be a self-defense case or a SYG case?

[Uncle Chip]

Watch the wink and the nod that Angela Corey and Mark O’Mara give each other in this touching moment in court:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/08/the-hidden-agenda-exposed-mark-omara-on-bet-air-date-april-20th-730pm-videos/

[Paladin2]

Heh, heh, heh, they called him “boy”.

[Uncle Chip]

He needs an attorney that will repeatedly attack Trayvon Martin, his family, and their handlers.

You bet -- and subpoena those toxicology records, school records, juvenile records, Facebook pages, Twitter Tweets, and start those depositions of the Martin family, and Brandi Greene.

Let's put them all "under oath" and see how their credibility stands up under examination. They've lied from day one. Let's see how far they are willing to lie under oath.

[Uncle Chip]

".... boy ..."

LOL

It appears that the only "racial inequality" and "institutional racism" here comes from the keyboard of the author of that sentence.

[Glenmore]

“subpoena those toxicology records, school records”

I bet such subpoena requests will be denied by the judge.

[pierrem15]

There is nothing more disgusting to most Americans than seeing the media and the political and legal system conspire against them in favor of the criminal class in order to keep their own power and privileges.

That's why Zimmerman receives the donations he does: its a big "f--- you" to our corrupt media, politicians and judges.

[Uncle Chip]

I bet such subpoena requests will be denied by the judge.

You're probably right.

However, the tox report is part of the autopsy and was supposed to have been turned over a week ago.

And I would pursue all those other records as it goes to "motive" and "mindset" as to why TM would fly off the handle, seemingly unprovoked, as he did.

If the judge will not allow them opened up, then I would submit news and investigative reports and depose the moms and dad and gf. One way or another, they would be in the court record.

[OneWingedShark]

“To Trayvon supporters, THE FACT that a half-white, half-Hispanic man went free after profiling Trayvon, an innocent black boy, as a criminal, chasing after him, and then shooting the unarmed boy reeked of racial inequality and even institutional racism.”

I love how one person is an institution. I also love how they're trying to make it sound like a) profiling [statistics applied] is illegitimate for a private citizen AND b) that a citizen has the same accountability as "the system" [government; re: due process].

There's also a subtext here; that man was created in the image of government. The implications of that philosophy are truly frightening.